Foreign parents of Israeli born children

amother

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 10:36 am

No judgements, just trying to understand and help others.
Does your child speak English with an accent?
If yes:
Is life too busy to teach them.
You like the accent.
You don't feel it's important.
You are confident that they will have a good job without speaking well, reading or writing English.

amother

Wandflower

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 11:04 am

I don't think my older kids have accents but my mom thinks they do. Their English is as perfect as any kid in elementary but they aren't reading on grade level. Their writing isn't wonderful.
My youngest mixes Hebrew and English and has an adorable accent.
I care. I invest in speaking correct English with great vocabulary in my house, as does my husband. We read to them in English at bedtime. I believe it will work itself out.
It's also very important to me for my kids to speak proper Hebrew and I'm not willing to sacrifice that for perfect English. I have seen too many families where the kids never become Israeli partially because of this.

Elfrida

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 11:07 am

amother OP wrote:

What does an accent have to do with writing English?

amother

Slategray

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 11:10 am

amother OP wrote:

How is this post going to help others?
What are you trying to understand?
To me this question drips of judgement.

amother

Firethorn

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 12:11 pm

I didn't realize that my oldest had an accent. She didn't sound Israeli, but she also didn't sound American. But I didn't notice until we went to visit America and I heard how she sounded in comparison to American kids. Having her watch American TV and talking regularly to American relatives improved her accent. However, apparently she has a slight American accent in Hebrew now, though I don't hear it either.

She pronounces all the letters correctly in both languages, so I am not quite sure what it is that makes her English or Hebrew have slight accents in them.

Edited to add: She reads above grade level in English (even compared to an American child her age) and she also writes very well. Her Hebrew is fine, but not as good as her English. And she was born here and has been in Hebrew environments since she was a toddler, except at home where we speak English only.

amother

Jasmine

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 12:23 pm

Even extremely worldly literate people who are fluent in a language other than their native language have "accents" and often one can tell what country they are from because the accents are so distinctive.

I am not understanding why it would be an issue except for those extremely rare positions in which the lack of an accent is critical to the job function. For example, I would expect someone who is teaching a language to not have an accent

An accent in one's native language is generally a bit more problematic although with increasing multiculturalism, that can be less of a problem.

There are some accents that are indicative of one's economic and social class. For example, the "Brooklyn accent" or a very strong Southern "Cracker" accent is generally viewed as lower class. In English, there is a differentiation between the accents of the upper class and a Cockney accent. Everyone can instantly recognize the kind of accent the Queen has and it reveals quite a bit about status - or it used to.

Years ago public school teachers in New York City were required to pass spoken language tests to ensure they didn't have an accent. My family had lots of teachers and because of this test and the speech/elocution lessons they took to pass it, they had what would be called "high class accents" - or more accurately the kind of non-accent that is perceived as high class versus a Brooklyn or foreign accent.

amother

Blush

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 12:45 pm

I think it is important for my kids to have a fluent english, both written and spoken, and to have as much grammar as the typical American (most have awful grammar, but its a different kind of awful when compared to foreign mistakes).
I still see having a rich and sophisticated Hebrew as more important, and it is impossible to have a perfect accent in english without having an accent in hebrew, and often the focus on english comes at the expense of the hebrew. I had friends from RBS born in israel who dropped out of college because their english wasn't good enough - that is a no go for me.

The only people who put a bog emphasis on accent are people who are planning to move back - that is a whole different story. I want my kids to integrate here and have the english because it really is an asset in the workforce. The thing is it's only an asset when you have a rich and sophisticated Hebrew and a fantastic english. Just a fantastic english makes you the equivalent of an oleh - which often means limited job options.

I also believe (and have seen this pan out in real life) that if you have the basic american Israeli accented english - you CAN work hard as an adult to get rid of the accent (although it's hard work and needs motivation) so if for some reason they ended up creating a life for themselves in america, and getting rid of the accent is important to them they CAN do it, its not like a heavy Isreali accent that is very hard to loose.

amother

Blush

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 12:51 pm

amother OP wrote:

This part of the question is strange - there is a difference between an accent and reading and writing english.

In general, since we are charedi, while I make sure my boys can read and write, I focus and push them less then the girls - they are probably elementary school level. There path in life so far is the yeshiva- kollel - klei kodesh, and if they do join the workforce they are ahead of the typical Israeli who did bagruyot. One of my kids to the amirim fpr fun( the test that lets you escape english class in college) and got a perfect score - not that college is on the agenda.

The girls - I would like them to have the opportunity to access remote american jobs, as they often offer the benefit if flexibility and and work from home, so I push them more. They also get more at school. But they all have accents, and I couldn't care less.

amother

Firebrick

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 1:19 pm

amother OP wrote:

Asking the same question as a poster above:
What does having an accent have to do with reading and writing???

I chose to raise my kids in Israel. They are in school in hebrew, have Israeli friends and neighbors. Of course they're going to have accents. I'm perfectly fine with that. Reading and writing in English on a decent level is fine for me too.
Have you heard American kids speaking Hebrew? Talk about accents...
And if they're Israeli, living in Israel, then they'll likely get jobs in Israel and not need much English anyway. Although English on a basic level is definitely a helpful life skill.
Did that answer your question?

(I feel bad being snarky, especially in these times of building ahavas yisrael, but this question is a sore point and pet peeve of mine...)

amother

Vermilion

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 2:30 pm

amother Slategray wrote:

How is this post going to help others?
What are you trying to understand?
To me this question drips of judgement.

Spinoff: why do certain people love to say "I'm not judging, but" then go ahead to say something very judgemental???

"I'm not judging, but why do some people have more kids than they can handle?"

"I'm not judging, but I noticed that you gave less to this charity than the Cohen family even though you make more?"

"Why are all of your grown children not successful, outstanding citizens? I'm just asking. No judgement."

"No judgement, but I'd just like to point out that other people have 10 kids and volunteer, and you only have 5 kids and don't volunteer."

****
If YOU do this, why?

imacoolmom

Tue, Dec 26 2023, 7:03 pm

amother Vermilion wrote:

I hope I don’t do this
Only reason I can think of that it’s an subconscious defense mechanism? Like they know they are about to be judgmental but they don’t want to be perceived that way?

salt

Wed, Dec 27 2023, 1:02 am

amother OP wrote:

We went through this on the other thread. You can't teach an accent.
I sometimes try and correct my kids with no pressure -
eg. DD says "can I take swee cookies?"
I'll say "three cookies?".

My kids definitely have a better English accent than their Israeli peers, and I happen to think their English is pretty good, but whenever I hear my relatives' kids in London speak, I am always shocked by the difference!

DrMom

Wed, Dec 27 2023, 1:17 am

I care more about whether they can express themselves in English than whether they have a detectable accent.

I don't think there is much ROI in training them to speak like someone living in a foreign country, esp in a global economy where having an accent in any language is a negligible impediment to success.

What is your obsession with this topic?

amother

Tuberose

Wed, Dec 27 2023, 1:19 am

amother OP wrote:

I'm curious: what do you mean by "teach them" an accent?

amother

Wed, Dec 27 2023, 1:29 am

amother Tuberose wrote:

I'm curious: what do you mean by "teach them" an accent?

Teach the that English does not have ר but an R and no ל but L these make a huge difference in the way the speak. Say the words bread & milk with ר ל now do b l. It's a simple concept and easy to explain to kids.

salt

Wed, Dec 27 2023, 1:38 am

amother OP wrote:

My kids pronounce R pretty much like a W.
No amount of teaching is going to get them to say a real R.
They can hardly even hear the difference.
And I'm not going to send them to speech therapy for it.

They also can't hear the difference between the words CAT and CUT.
They simply say "but it's the same!"

They have British English, so the L is the same.

Baruch hashem, they speak English, English is easy for them in school, they can communicate with their grandparents, they can read English if they have to, zehu.