Gates of tears are never closed

contextual

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 1:59 pm

It seems like since the Churban, the gates of prayer are closed, but the gates of tears never closed.
You can take it in a metaphorical way:
It's harder to pray since the Churban, we don't feel the same connection to Hashem.
But when we burst out in tears, it's an expression of real feeling, and Hashem will never ignore it.
You can see it as an encouragement to pray with real feeling and arouse ourselves to tears whenever we can.

amother

Ginger

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 5:33 pm

contextual wrote:

Just my thoughts gathered from over time but not directly referencing sources necessarily.

I would think it means to imply that there's a way through, & we have the ability to "open" the way.

Not that like, there's a literal gate, & we need a key, like one would physical gate. But metaphorically perhaps, for tefillos to go higher & be more impactful, "gates" or new levels are reached, are accessed, & we all can access "keys" by effortfully trying to manifest keys & be allowed "through".

And so like someone else wrote, quoted here, I think it's metaphorically pointing to mental, emotional, perhaps hashkaphic barriers to kavana & whatnot. Barriers which can "keep the gate 'closed'".

Rav Shimshon Pincus's ztl sefer Gates of Tefilla, in Hebrew & there's English, is my favorite sefer for going deeper into tefilla, & maybe would give more context to this specific idea but not sure

amother

Ginger

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 5:44 pm

amother Burgundy wrote:

That's your question? I question the whole truth of the statement. How many of us cry and see no answer? How many of us literally storm the heavens with tears only to be turned away?
It hurts so much, it's so hard to believe.

I'm very hesitant to reply. This kind of question deserves a human touch, not an anonymous post.

It's very very hard. I think that's why emuna seferim, & shiurim, at least it seems to me, have seemed to sore in popularity over the years.

For me, it takes effort to learn about trusting Hashem, His answering no. I'll gain a little understanding, then forget, & the process repeats & continues. Sometimes He says yes.
At the end of the day, Hashem isn't a slot machine. It's sometimes a very, very bitter pill to swallow.

Rabbi Dr. Akiva Tatz has a 2 part series, I think its called Suffering & Joy and last I saw it was available on Simpletoremember.com, where he talks about how we're expected as Jews to strive very hard towards a goal, ie daven hard & other hishtadlus, & simultaneously accept, where it's possible for us to, even with joy.

But that's a high madreiga & I believe that Hashem knows, better than we do, how very human we are & that He loves us even when we're struggling & our emunah seems no where in sight.

amother

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 5:51 pm

kugelEater wrote:

I once heard this question, and if someone knows the source please help me out! but I remember learning that to certain types of crying, it slams shut. (I think maybe a cry without bitachon... like the meraglim...) someone help me out here! but there is definitely an answer to this question, it has been asked by great people:) ברוך שכוונת!

these tears dont even go up do they?

I thought only tears that are directed to hashem ascend?

crying even for real things that hashem acknowledges even without directing it to hashem gets accepted?

I am asking something abit twisted here.

I sometimes think that I am crying for small silly stuff but I heard we should bare our soles for silliest things to hashem, he wants to hear from us.

so I made a cheshbon- if I cry over silly things but not to hashem, I just plain cry then it might not be
accepted but even if its stupid - cos I am directing it to hashem it has a worth?

now how do I know what is trivial and silly and what not?

how do I know that hashem isnt punishing me for crying for things that are for nothing like the meraglim?

amother

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 5:54 pm

amother Burgundy wrote:

I keep telling myself that I am stocking the shelves.

my bank account keeps getting big deposits of huge amounts of tefillah with rivers, no, oceans of tears,

that I have to stop myself cos I am scared I am going to pass out.

amother

Ginger

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 6:08 pm

amother OP wrote:

My response to reading what you wrote op, which is very touching, your sincerity & what it sounds like you're seeking. My thoughts are, that I'm wondering if you're maybe innocently kind of complicating things, at least to some extent? I've done that before at least, lots of times.

Like making Hashem & tefilla into a complex formula. There is complex liturgy & halacha. And then there are the very rare, legit mekubalim who may be utilizing not easily accessible complex kavanos.

But for most of us I presume, we can just talk to Hashem.
To try & be real.
If one cries over small things, that's ok, & one can simply say, "Hey, Hashem, I feel like I'm crying over trivialities".
If we're being trivial or very distracted, we can be like, "ok Hashem. This is all I got today..."

Rav Shimshon Pincus speaks of Hashem being a very real, personality so to speak.
Rather than a sophisticated approach, or lots of second guessing of ourselves, I think He wants our humanity (sometimes raw & hurting, sometimes totally superficial & cranky), & a relationship with each of us as we are.

amother

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 6:11 pm

amother Ginger wrote:

My response to reading what you wrote op, which is very touching, your sincerity & what it sounds like you're seeking. My thoughts are, that I'm wondering if you're maybe innocently kind of complicating things, at least to some extent? I've done that before at least, lots of times.

Like making Hashem & tefilla into a complex formula. There is complex liturgy & halacha. And then there are the very rare, legit mekubalim who may be utilizing not easily accessible complex kavanos.

But for most of us I presume, we can just talk to Hashem.
To try & be real.
If one cries over small things, that's ok, & one can simply say, "Hey, Hashem, I feel like I'm cring over trivialities".
If we're being trivial or very distracted, we can be like, "ok Hashem. This is all I got today..."

Rav Shimshon Pincus speaks of Hashem being a very real, personality so to speak.
Rather than a sophisticated approach, or lots of second guessing of ourselves, I think He wants our humanity (sometimes raw & hurting, sometimes totally superficial & cranky), & a relationship with each of us as we are.

you mean to say- dont be so formal, stilted, "oisgechesbant" when speaking to your father.

it should be natural and flowing, however it is at the moment.

I am just always afraid of being like the meraglim crying for nothing and then hashem will show me what it means to cry for something.

amother

Ginger

Tue, Jan 23 2024, 10:13 pm

amother OP wrote:

That's how I feel, re bringing who you are more naturally to the table in tefilla.

Re your fear, I hear that, but I feel like:
1, that's a high madreiga, like a standard for people who are much greater than me

2, to me it has an air of Hashem being punishing. Years ago my perspective changed re that concept, of Hashem's prescription towards out having cried in vain.
Instead of a tone of punishment, lehavdel like in the secular shows (think, harsh tone of voice here) "I'll give you something to cry about", but rather, I understand it more to mean (think here rather, in a loving tone of voice):
"My children. You mistakenly wept, where it wasn't warranted. I'm gifting you with Tisha b'Av, in order to teach you how to understand what's actually worth crying over, because that's good for you, & I care about you".

So I value Tisha b'Av for that, for my neshama education if you will.
However I know that I'm a really regular flawed person who gets cranky over things like needing a coffee & trivialities, I can get scared about relatively minor things & often take my blessings for granted etc etc, & so in my day to day life, I just don't think Hashem is holding me to such a high standard, measuring me with such a measuring stick of if something brings me to tears, if it's worthy of crying over.
Haleveye everyone should cry to Hashem over our trivialities, you know what I mean? Like if we're bringing Hashem into at all, I think that's already a big deal in the right direction.

At the end of the day, if you worry about it a lot, then maybe if you intuitively feel like it's something worth exploring more deeply, than maybe it's good to discuss it with a rav or Rebbetzin? Not necessarily to let go of that fear, but maybe to try & understand it better?

If something feels scary & disempowering about it, then maybe there's a distortion in your hashkafa about it that you could let go of. But if it's something that is fascinating & empowering rather, then maybe it's worth exploring further to see where it leads you.

kugelEater

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 4:21 am

After reading your replies OP, I want to clarify something. When you cry because the soup burned or a glass broke or you missed an appointment etc. Even if you aren't crying directly to Hashem in the moment, He DOES take those tears!! Every bit of suffering we have now is connected to the churban, so when you cry over seeming trivialities, you really are crying over the churban.
And if in the moment you are crying, you can take those tears and channel them to tefillah, then that tefillah is immensely more powerful and beloved to Hashem, since it comes from a broken heart and downtrodden spirit- לב נשבר ונדכה אלקים לא תבזה.

amother

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 7:10 am

kugelEater wrote:

so hashem always sees our tears even if we dont cry to him but its even more powerful if we
direct it to him?

sometimes when I cry and dont daven I still feel like I am crying to hashem.

however, how does one know we are being like the "meraglim"?
whats the difference between crying and complaining?

amother

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 7:12 am

kugelEater wrote:

https://breslev.com/357232/

this bothers me.

Beautiful

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 7:15 am

amother Ginger wrote:

That's how I feel, re bringing who you are more naturally to the table in tefilla.

Re your fear, I hear that, but I feel like:
1, that's a high madreiga, like a standard for people who are much greater than me

2, to me it has an air of Hashem being punishing. Years ago my perspective changed re that concept, of Hashem's prescription towards out having cried in vain.
Instead of a tone of punishment, lehavdel like in the secular shows (think, harsh tone of voice here) "I'll give you something to cry about", but rather, I understand it more to mean (think here rather, in a loving tone of voice):
"My children. You mistakenly wept, where it wasn't warranted. I'm gifting you with Tisha b'Av, in order to teach you how to understand what's actually worth crying over, because that's good for you, & I care about you".

So I value Tisha b'Av for that, for my neshama education if you will.
However I know that I'm a really regular flawed person who gets cranky over things like needing a coffee & trivialities, I can get scared about relatively minor things & often take my blessings for granted etc etc, & so in my day to day life, I just don't think Hashem is holding me to such a high standard, measuring me with such a measuring stick of if something brings me to tears, if it's worthy of crying over.
Haleveye everyone should cry to Hashem over our trivialities, you know what I mean? Like if we're bringing Hashem in at all, I think that's already a big deal in the right direction.

At the end of the day, if you worry about it a lot, then maybe if you intuitively feel like it's something worth exploring more deeply, than maybe it's good to discuss it with a rav or Rebbetzin? Not necessarily to let go of that fear, but maybe to try & understand it better?

If something feels scary & disempowering about it, then maybe there's a distortion in your hashkafa about it that you could let go of. But if it's something that is fascinating & empowering rather, then maybe it's worth exploring further to see where it leads you.

Thank you for writing this about Tisha bAv! You have completelt reframed it for me. Where can I learn more in this vein?