Does this sound like Hf ASD?

LovesHashem

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 4:52 pm

amother OP wrote:

adult male,
very very scheduled and organized, but not necessarily neat.
anything added to his routine any small extra is sort of a stress and something to plan out even weeks earlier like how he will arrange and change his daily schedule. not that he can't enjoy a simcha e.t.c. but it will take up mental space sort of...
his way is the right way.
cannot understand when ppl are not timely and scheduled, has a hard time understanding ppl on a lower level in yiddishkeit,
not ocd with halachas, but maybe almost and other ppl are just not doing it right...
if he doesn't feel like certain part of taking care of personal hygiene is important, than it's not important
not understanding social rules, cues, poor social skills
I really think something is off when I listen to him having conversations with ppl...
he will converse better with younger or really older from him...
like by a simcha he will sit down next to uncles or zeidy rather than brothers or brother in laws..
he will mostly enjoy talking about topics of his interest and will not realize but mostly talk about himself, bring up something about him...or something ppl will wow him for knowing / saying...
doesn't pick up how foolish he sounds as an adult when he is like almost begging for attention, aknowledgement and compliments
won't openly brag about himself but almost
enjoys to be different and stand out
he can talk about something and not pick up that listeners are not interested in this topic..
I've seen many times ppl smirking behind his back but he wouldn't pick up, and will have no understanding as to why .
booksmart, extraordinary memory, loves to learn and loves knowledge.

thanks for reading till here, what does sound like?

Everything in the bold are common asd traits.

amother

Viola

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 5:21 pm

amother OP wrote:

may I ask if and how it affects your life? Do you have children with a s d? Did you know when you got married?

Really too long to expand on here. I am neurodivergent as well, I had ADHD and I think it helped us connect a lot. Dh was diagnosed while we were engaged.

Some of them are neurodivergent and some are not. All are "high functioning".

There's lots of great threads and voices on here of autistic women and other wives of autistic men.

I do see some issues some people have with autistic men, like I've seen some threads in the past where some people married autistic men that cannot accept responsibility or do not work on themselves.

When I was dating it was really important to me to find somebody who was mentally well and into Mental Health. So we discussed therapy on dates, taking responsibility, managing a household, communication. Being open to therapy, medication, admitting mistakes, taking responsibility, open to learning or changing to have a good relationship and to make someone happy, learning to be flexible are all things that are a deal breaker. If he is not capable of most of those things it's a very different picture.

Everyone with ASD is completely different, some people are completely suitable to get married and have children and some people aren't. Some people are self aware and some people aren't. Some people are willing to work on themselves and some people are not willing to change to any degree for anyone. It's so so individual.

miami85

Wed, Jan 24 2024, 5:24 pm

amother Ultramarine wrote:

As the mother of 2 hfasd children I must say that this is off.

op's description sounds very much on target and could very well be asd. but needs to be properly diagnosed

I am a school psychologist and I get "autism" reports from local practitioners all the time and lots of kids with "hyperfocus ADHD" get a diagnosis of Autism because the diagnostic criteria just say "deficit" but no quantification or qualification of what may cause the deficit. We have to do our own assessment of Autism. I see lots of disagreement between our assessments and the local doctors.

"empathy" comes from the "theory of mind" principal and being able to take another person's perspective. It comes from the following point in the DSM-5 criteria "reduced sharing of interests, emotions, or affect;" and "to difficulties in sharing imaginative play or in making friends; to absence of interest in peers." The DSM-5 criteria are clear that you need ALL 3 of the top three (and I have seen bizarre justifications of all 3) and 2/4 Restricted or repetitive behaviors + severity of the impact of daily life.

Hyperfocus ADHD has many similar qualities of ASD but they CAN be empathetic and understand/use non-verbal communication. So depends if a doctor cares enough to make a differential diagnosis.
https://familypsychnj.com/2019.....adhd/

LovesHashem

Thu, Jan 25 2024, 3:35 am

miami85 wrote:

Experiencing and reacting different does not mean a lack of empathy.

You are over simplifying how our brains work to the point of making incredibly insensitive, misleading, and incorrect statements.

Similar to how you would not expect a 2 yr old to have the same reaction and understanding, and thought process other people have when being asked to display empathy so to autistic people. If we don't process or understand the issue in the same way, of course we will feel differently. And even if we do we have trouble making the correct faces and tones and knowing what words to say even if we feel deeply empathetic.

Recent studies actually show autistics are more empathitic and feel much deeper than neurotypical people do, but again due to how we process and communicate it may not seem like we do.

Everything you say about theory of mind is correct but the conclusion of those points is not autistic people lack empathy.

amother

Currant

Thu, Jan 25 2024, 2:46 pm

miami85 wrote:

I feel like everyone wants to put people into a box everyone is either ASD/ADHD/BPD/Narcissitic/Depressed.

Sounds to me like a quirky individual who just doesn't care what others think about him.

Men in general are more singular minded. Can't handle more than one thing at a time (it's the hunter-gatherer mentality).

ASD requires

1)Lack of empathy
2)Lack of picking up of non-verbal language
3)Lack of ability to develop relationships.

Sensory and or hyper fixated on a topic.

Of course within of all of these you'll find people willing to check the boxes on the slightest "delay" as a "deficit".

A few things to keep in mind 1) Is he employable? 2) Is he dating/marriageable/married? 3)Does he seem happy?

There are now subdivisions of ADHD that seem to sound like autism without the sensory piece, the biggest difference is that medication helps them shift gears a bit easier.

This is really insulting.

Lots of ASD people have empathy, and most are capable of developing relationships - though they might need some guidance. Many do miss nonverbal cues but some ASD people do pick up on those cues.

amother

Currant

Thu, Jan 25 2024, 2:53 pm

amother Daffodil wrote:

I think it's the oppositional-defiance in us.

My HFASD son was actually diagnosed with ODD but I really don't think that's accurate. I think it looks oppositional-defiant before you understand how the ASD brain works but when you understand it you see that the opposition/defiance doesn't come from an inner opposition or a need to defy but rather from a struggle with whatever the demand is. Except that too often we don't understand that there is even a struggle so we just see the opposition and label it defiant.

amother

Daffodil

Thu, Jan 25 2024, 2:58 pm

amother Currant wrote:

My brain works this way myself and yes, demand avoidance is definitely a thing, more related to anxiety and "freeze" state, but there's also an element of oppositional-ness -- like a compulsion to do the opposite. At least this is my lived experience.

rrlavona

Sat, Jan 27 2024, 2:46 pm

This sounds like my son, who is diagnosed.

I also asked the same question when getting the diagnosis for my son: why? Will a diagnosis help? In the end, yes, it helps me as a mother understand more and the different therapies help him understand how to be him and feel good about being him amongst lots of people who don't understand him, and also how to regulate his behaviors, needs and senses in many different settings. It helps, and surely as an adult it could help knowing too? I have ADHD friends who are in their late forties who have only recently been diagnosed but it has felt relieving for them and given the tools and hizuk.

Mind you, I quite like these traits of the asd we talk about. I am done with us all being conformers to such a blank page level. Embrase the spectrum. Some traits are more challenging than others, but isn't that with all humans?

My son also struggles to understand how if another person knows a halacha, why they would not be adhering to the halacha. It even emotionally causes him suffering. In his mind all is straight forward in that respect: It's halacha (!). I've had to have many soft conversations about differences in the world and use physical examples of different flowers in our garden (representing people). It's still hard.

He can't comprehend saying something and not meaning it (joking or worse). It really disturbs him. He cannot grasp why anyone would actively hurt someone or something (moqueries or physical), people, animals, or plants.

Relationships are hard, and he is like an old man in a child's body. But he can develop relationships I believe. In our last (better for him) location the children would knock and ask for him.

He will also remember something for years. If someone he met with me may says "next time we meet I'll show you a picture of a red star lamp", years later -years- if we happen to see that person he will ask about the picture of the red star lamp. He's only just 7, so I find that extraordinary. Trying to teach him to add without physical beads though, and 2+3 becomes 1. He was conversing in another language completely within two weeks, however, so simply I've no idea about the remarkable wires in these brains.

It's called the spectrum for a reason, but there are tell tale signs as other mums here have mentioned.

Ending by noting that my son has empathy. It's hard to get him to grasp things (forget abstract right now), but he definitely has empathy. Just needed to add that.

amother

Ultramarine

Sat, Jan 27 2024, 3:49 pm

miami85 wrote:

Just curious how you measure whether someone can be empathetic or not.

amother

Almond

Sat, Jan 27 2024, 5:38 pm

He sounds just like my uncle - who has a diagnosed personality disorder, however I do not know the details. But rigid thinking, impairment in relationships, poor hygiene, hyperfocus, judgemental of others, altered emotions, difficulty in expressing emotion, and eccentric/quirky behavior are features of personality disorders as well, e.g., obsessive compulsive personality disorder (different than OCD), schizoid personality disorder, schizotypal personality disorder

So it could be ASD or it could be something else. A psychiatric evaluation would be helpful.

amother

Burgundy

Sat, Jan 27 2024, 7:35 pm

amother Ultramarine wrote:

Just curious how you measure whether someone can be empathetic or not.

I don’t know how to measure it but if you come live with my spouse, you will see it.
He is COMPLETELY unable to see another perspective or feeling on other than his own.
Like totally unable.
Even taking a simple non emotional topic- if I tell him I like living a quieter neighborhood, I value grass, nature, trees, and space etc.
I tell him- I know you like the city I’m just saying that different people like different things, and if we have to move out due to costs, to me it’s not a problem! It’s another benefit. My dh cannot have that. He says- everyone knows that this city where we live is the best place to live. I say- I’m happy you like it and there definitely are benefits, but different strokes for different folks. He says- no, everyone likes it better here.
So I say- really so why would people choose to live elsewhere? He says - I guess they can’t afford it.
He CAN not see that I hate it here, But even when I explain it to him he can not grasp another view.
He is difficult to live with.
Try to explain to him something about feelings…. I won’t get started on that now.

amother

Ultramarine

Sun, Jan 28 2024, 4:14 am

amother Burgundy wrote:

You sound like you are in a VERY difficult situation. And I hear you, believe me I truly do.
My question was to miami85 . the school psychologist who differentiates asd from adhd by the only difference of having empathy and reading facial expressions. I am curious how she measures empathy in an evaluation.
I fully disagree about reading facial expressions as it is called a spectrum for a reason. but that is for another thread.....

amother

Viola

Sun, Jan 28 2024, 4:48 am

amother Almond wrote:

Or it could be a few things. There's people with ASD and personality disorders. Most people with ADHD or asd have more than one diagnosis