My daughter cannot self regulate and refuses help

amother

Sun, Jan 28 2024, 4:46 pm

I am literally at my wits end!!!!!!
My 12 year old daughter cannot self regulate and makes everyone around her miserable. She has constant meltdowns and tantrums like a toddler. Shes triggered by her siblings the worst. She has so much good in her life and she's angry, crying and mean to everyone all the time.
She went to therapy on and off for years and has refused to continue. We've tried changing her diet and have tried medication but she refuses the help. She won't take medication, she will do nothing to help herself.
Shes chutzpadik and obnoxious to everyone. All the love in the world, her special attention, her extra time with mommy, her privileges, her extra curricular is doing zero except make us resentful.
Shes got terrible middos and no emotional regulation, she's draining and horrible to be around, I have no idea what to do.

groisamomma

Sun, Jan 28 2024, 4:51 pm

I would ask if you’ve tried punishments but I’ll get tomatoes thrown all over me. Honestly, you sound like you’ve tried everything else!

Has she always been volatile? If not, might it possibly be PANDAS?

amother

Lawngreen

Sun, Jan 28 2024, 4:54 pm

amother OP wrote:

The book "123Magic" has saved my household.
also if she refuses therapy maybe you can get the therapy for her, meaning get professional guidance on how to deal with the situation.

amother

Amaranthus

Sun, Jan 28 2024, 5:00 pm

This sounds very much like pandas. The refusal to help themselves or get help is part of the fight-flight caused by brain inflammation. Treating it can be challenging initially when they're this oppositional but once you get over that initial hump and some of the inflammation comes down it gets much easier.

Some people with extremely resistant children like to start with homeopathy because it's sooo easy to administer, it can literally be a sip of water. And the results can be pretty dramatic.

If you're able to get her to take some dye free motrin and benadryl it should help very quickly. I would use whatever threats or bribes I could.

amother

Sun, Jan 28 2024, 5:24 pm

She can mostly hold it together at school, but it comes out in small ways there. It's the worst at home, very much triggered by her siblings.
Isn't pandas, sudden onset? She's been emotionally volatile her whole life.

amother

Amaranthus

Sun, Jan 28 2024, 5:28 pm

amother OP wrote:

She may have had her onset as a toddler and it was missed because it was thought to be a phase. Children can be born with brain inflammation as well. When I mention pandas I usually mean it as an umbrella term for pandas/pans/lyme/autoimmune encephalitis and really all other functional medical causes for brain inflammation.

amother

Sun, Jan 28 2024, 5:40 pm

amother Amaranthus wrote:

Let's say this is what it is (which I highly doubt) what would I do about this? She is refusing all help.

amother

Amaranthus

Sun, Jan 28 2024, 5:50 pm

amother OP wrote:

Let's say this is what it is (which I highly doubt) what would I do about this? She is refusing all help.

There are lots of things to try but this isn't an easy route and you'd need to be very committed. If you don't believe this is it, you probably won't get very far.

Like I said upthread though, if you want the easiest to administer and are willing to give it a shot, homeopathy is the way to go. Resilience naturopathic is a homeopathy practice that specializes in pandas and pans, they are all virtual. Not cheap, but many people have seen dramatic results. What it would involve for you is keeping very very very detailed track of all her symptoms physical, emotional, behavioral, psychological, and giving her a single remedy at a time, usually either 2 sugar pellets under the tongue, or even just a sip of water [with remedy dissolved in it, but they don't have to know that].

If you think you can get her to take motrin and benadryl for 3 days you can do this trial. If her behaviors noticeably improve with these 2 medications, that's a pretty good proof that inflammation is at play and you can take it from there. Don't tell her why you're giving them to her, just give it with some chocolate syrup or ice cream or whatever it takes.

amother

Almond

Sun, Jan 28 2024, 5:50 pm

I wouldn't put all my eggs in the Pandas basket, though it doesn't hurt to do a strep test.

I would think about what strengths she has, and if any of them correspond with a therapy, try that. Art therapy, dance or music therapy, animal therapy, etc. Have the first four or five sessions, or more, be just about the thing. And definitely OT- if you find the right one, the therapist will focus with her on movement or coordination or the like and make it fun, but really be chiefly fo used on body awareness as it relates to overall regulation. And she will gradually bring dd into that, because inherently I'm sure dd wants to be in control, including of herself.

From my experience, what she really needs is meds. But yiu need to get her to a place where she can accept them, even enough to try. For that you need a very very understanding and flexible doctor, and you to improve her life just enough that she will engage. Being a preteen is majorly rough. If she has any semblance of adhd, anxiety, etc,it may be elevated now- both by the circumstances of life and by hormone surges.

amother

Powderblue

Sun, Jan 28 2024, 6:02 pm

I wonder whether there’s a possibility she could be on the autism spectrum. I have known a few girls who were clever and fairly well behaved in school (and so were not diagnosed earlier) but had huge meltdowns and were very difficult to live with at home, and they ended up being diagnosed in their mid-teens. Girls are generally very good at masking but it takes a huge toll on them and can lead to very intense tantrums and even violence.

amother

Almond

Sun, Jan 28 2024, 6:06 pm

amother Powderblue wrote:

Adhd can do this too, or ADD- without the hyperactivity, it can hide.

And anxiety as well. Think of how difficult it is for all of us to regulate when we're at our most anxious; now imagine that on a teenager. Now imagine they're that anxious most of the time, or frequently and unpredictably. Hence the meds.

amother

White

Sun, Jan 28 2024, 6:22 pm

I think you should write a log of ages and behaviors and you go for help without her. Whether it's neuropsychological or behavioral, go consult with adhd, asd specialist or parenting specialist or psychologist, you get the help behind the scenes and do the parenting.

oneofakind

Mon, Jan 29 2024, 8:18 am

Her behavior I'm sure has generated a lot of negative feedback from her siblings and parents which leads her to be even more negative. It becomes a bad cycle when they feel so bad about themselves that they don't want any help because that is admitting that something is wrong with them and everyone else is "right" or "good".
You need to develop a good relationship with her, be firm and bribe her to go to a psychiatrist. It's not easy and you may have to consult a therapist yourself.

amother

Charcoal

Mon, Jan 29 2024, 8:25 am

OP, it's tough.
I have an almost 9 year old DD like this.
She was diagnosed with ADHD.
She takes medication which has alleviated her hyperactivity and taken the edge off her meltdowns. But she is still edgy, irritable, and mean to her siblings.
I'm looking into OT services for her.
Anyone saw that OT helped?

amother

Cantaloupe

Mon, Jan 29 2024, 8:30 am

I have a dd like this, very stubborn. The older she gets, the less things she agrees to get help for. Even physical issues. She needs control. The most helpful thing has been actively working on my relationship with her. Like literally mumbling to myself in an empty room that I love her, even when the words don't want to come out. And give her as much bodily control as possible. As long as she thinks you are givibg her pills and slepping her to doctors to make your life easier, she will not comply. She has to know you're doing it for her. I'm personally not there yet with my own dd... hugs!!

amother

Cerulean

Mon, Jan 29 2024, 8:31 am

amother Almond wrote:

My kids with ADHD and anxiety sound exactly like your daughter

miami85

Mon, Jan 29 2024, 9:21 am

This is a very challenging situation when a child feels like the problem exists outside of them. The best strategy I can think of is 1) is she bothered by something in her siblings? Is it coming from peer pressure? Is it real or perceived? 2) Are they "superior" to her and therefore she is attacking to feel better than them? 3)One of my kids seems triggered by his siblings when he is hungry/tired/stomach bothering him and he gets like this. The only thing I have found helpful is to feed him and give him space until the other feelings subside (nap/bathroom etc) and I tell everyone else "stay away from him" 4)She may not be receptive to "medication" but is she susceptible to "vitamins" or a food-nutritional approach?

I thought one of my kids had PANDAS for years but I was repeatedly told that without having had strep diagnosed isn't almost impossible for it to be PANDAS.

In the two kids I have known to be like this (not siblings, but biologically related) the common denominator was some sort of underlying stomach issue which the underlying trigger was never identified but I have evidence of it triggering behavior. When a child doesn't feel good, it's hard to self-regulate and if you are not willing to make the changes to your diet it is very hard to get it under control.