Must I pay for a broken window

amother

Wed, Feb 14 2024, 8:41 am

If your 11 year old son was playing ball with a group of friends in one the other boy's backyard, and your son hit a ball that broke a window, are you obligated to pay? I offered to pay, yet I was surprised that they accepted my money. It's happened to me in the past, and I never accept payment from anyone else.

SuperWify

Wed, Feb 14 2024, 8:43 am

Well you did offer.., and why shouldn’t they accept? A window is expensive.

Sucks I know. Maybe the 11 year old should chip in a bit to teach some cause and effect /life can suck type of thing.. even though he probably didn’t do it on purpose.

SuperWify

Wed, Feb 14 2024, 8:45 am

To add to this, hallachically a parent isn’t responsible for the damage of a Katan. So technically while you don’t need to, but it would be the proper thing to do.

I remember a child took his bike handle and purposely scratched the whole side of our brand new van. When my parents spoke to his parents they said they weren’t responsible because he was a Katan. Wasn’t very nice.

amother

Daffodil

Wed, Feb 14 2024, 8:46 am

Our neighbor asked a rav after kids broke his car window. The man told the parents that as of halacha they are not responsible, but as of chinuch he feels they should pay. If you offer, people are happy to accept money for the damage. However, if you don't offer that's OK too.

watergirl

Wed, Feb 14 2024, 8:49 am

When my daughter was around 8, she was playing in front of my apartment with a friend on shabbos and the friend randomly picked up a rock and threw it and it went right into my minivan window. My husband and her father spoke and decided to ask a rav together who should pay. The father went to his rav on his own, no idea what he said, but his rav said as she is under 12, they have no obligation to pay for the window and refused to pay or even pay half. As the child was pretty unpredictable, we never had her back again.

There is an entire masechta on damages for a reason, it's not so simple as to manners and etiquette. This is really a shailah as to who is responsible and who should pay.

amother

White

Wed, Feb 14 2024, 8:50 am

I would also be upset that they accepted the money, especially since it easily could have been their son who was the one who threw that ball. They should have compromised. Your offer was the mentschlich thing to do, but they should have been mentschlich by declining or negotiating.

amother

Garnet

Wed, Feb 14 2024, 8:50 am

Halachically, I don't think there is an obligation to pay. However, it is praiseworthy to do so (and I think good chinuch as well).

You did the right thing by offering. You might never know why they accepted your offer rather than refusing, but since you offered, they didn't do anything wrong by accepting. Since you already offered, yes, you should pay. I don't know if you become halachically obligated once you offer, but it would be really bad to refuse after you offer.

amother

NeonGreen

Wed, Feb 14 2024, 8:54 am

I would think so! If someone breaks a window they should pay.

A neighbor was playing next door and hit a ball that broke our window. Of course we accepted the payment.

(I hate when boys play next door bec I don’t know if they’ll all be as honest as that boy was and admit it was them… then I remind myself Hashem is in charge)

NechaMom

Wed, Feb 14 2024, 8:57 am

amother Lightyellow wrote:

I am shocked at these responses. Of course you should pay!

I feel the same. Your child broke something. Why should the neighbor dish out money to pay for it? Even if you’re not obligated as far as halacha it’s the menchlich thing to do.

amother

Whitesmoke

Wed, Feb 14 2024, 9:02 am

In order to keep shalom, its the right and better thing to do. It might be above what is required by law but Hashem keeps cheshbon of everything. I've had experiences where Rabbanim on batei din have said this is the halachic requirement but suggest you do more than that. So probably pay up and go above.

watergirl

Wed, Feb 14 2024, 9:02 am

NechaMom wrote:

I feel the same. Your child broke something. Why should the neighbor dish out money to pay for it? Even if you’re not obligated as far as halacha it’s the menchlich thing to do.

I agree with this completely.

I'd also add - the best chinuch opportunity here is to make this into a lesson on the right time and the right place for everything. Backyards are not for playing baseball, they are for playing catch. Baseball fields are the place to hit balls with bats, and the reason is so windows are not broken.

theoneandonly

Wed, Feb 14 2024, 9:09 am

amother NeonGreen wrote:

I’m confused about the Halacha: if a minor does damage that’s it, the one who lost out has to cover the bill? That doesn’t sound fair at all.

Unfortunately, halacha doesn't always go by our modern ideas of fair.
Agreed that the parents paying for the damage is the right thing to do, but I have seen halachic situations where the person didn't have to pay and it feels yucky sometimes.

amother

Floralwhite

Wed, Feb 14 2024, 9:25 am

My intuitive reaction--which may be totally off halachically--is that if the host parents knew about and allowed the baseball game, then they accepted the risk of normal baseball game damages, which would include breakage from a hit ball.

Such risk would not include things like a kid cutting up their garden hose or throwing a baseball purposely through a car window. But it would include anything that happens as a result of normal good-faith baseball play, such as hitting and fielding.

That being said, since you offered, it seems very odd to back out.

Edit: in general, I would not accept payment from anyone for a kid breaking something accidentally if the kid was doing normal things in a normal way. I would only consider accepting payment if there was some kind of misbehavior or disobedience involved.

amother

Cappuccino

Wed, Feb 14 2024, 9:45 am

amother NeonGreen wrote:

Obviously halacha comes first and everyone must agree to follow it.

But from a standpoint of fairness I don't think it's obvious the child's parents should pay. If there is a ballgame going on in my backyard and I as the homeowner and parent am allowing it, it stands to reason that I am assuming the risk that comes with allowing a ballgame in the backyard.

This is not the same as if somehow the ball goes flying and damages a neighbors property who has nothing to do with allowing the game.

This is certainly not the same as a kid who decides to pick up a rock and toss it at a random car. This is a case where parents allowed a ballgame to happen on their property. There are very obvious risks that come with this.

Chayalle

Wed, Feb 14 2024, 9:45 am

amother Floralwhite wrote:

My intuitive reaction--which may be totally off halachically--is that if the host parents knew about and allowed the baseball game, then they accepted the risk of normal baseball game damages, which would include breakage from a hit ball.
[/b]
Such risk would not include things like a kid cutting up their garden hose or throwing a baseball purposely through a car window. But it would include anything that happens as a result of normal good-faith baseball play, such as hitting and fielding.

That being said, since you offered, it seems very odd to back out.

Edit: in general, I would not accept payment from anyone for a kid breaking something accidentally if the kid was doing normal things in a normal way. I would only consider accepting payment if there was some kind of misbehavior or disobedience involved.

I agree with this.

Years ago I had a neighbor who was always inviting DD - age 4 - over (we reciprocated as well) to play with her DD of same age, plus 6 year old son. I was not happy with the supervision over there and had to limit DD going there because of this. On one occasion, she called me to tell me the 3 of them destroyed a new book she bought her kids, and she felt I should pay half the damage. DH said no way. She is not supervising them, and then blaming my DD for what her kids come up with (and her son was very much the ringleader there).