DL/Torani retention rates

shabbatiscoming

Sun, Feb 25 2024, 2:28 pm

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

Why on earth would it matter what "kind" of Jew I am .These labels are used by people too lazy to get to know one another and appreciate the beautiful nuances that connect us and distinguish between us.

Dressing, as we learned in last weeks Parsha regarding the Kohanims clothing, is actually an important part of our identity. The uniform should be worn proudly as a sign of inclusion. The dress code as well.

Huh? You are very touchy about this it seems. Your response has less than zero to do with this thread and a lot to do with your comfort levels, it seems.

I never said clothing was not at all important. But in the DL world it is much less important than in the charedi world. Anyone living in Israel will tell you that straight out.
Anyone in the MO vs yeshivish world will tell you the same. I can vouch for that from the thread about the importance of yeshivish guys wearing black and white.
The emphasis on what people wear is just not the same in the dl world as it is in the charedi world. Full stop.

amother

Almond

Sun, Feb 25 2024, 3:06 pm

Shabbat is coming posted:" The emphasis on what people wear is just not the same in the dl world as it is in the charedi world."

And thank goodness for that!

amother

Canary

Sun, Feb 25 2024, 3:22 pm

essie14 wrote:

Exactly.
I don't cover my elbows. DD's school requires elbows to be covered in school. Outside of school DD chooses to dress like me. The school administrators see me dropping her off every day wearing short sleeves. Half the moms wear pants, which is not allowed for the girls either.
Half of the dads dont wear a kippah during the week, even to school events. The boys must wear a kippah in school but outside of school they probably do what their fathers do.

If I'm allowed to ask, I get the elbow covering (I know it's not so clear in halacha). I'm curious what the idea of no kippah is? Maybe outside/at work if there's a concern that looking Jewish will cause issues, but what's the deal with no kippah even in a Jewish environment? Or are you saying that many of the families are not religious at all? (Which is awesome, imo, I love when even non-religious families are sending to a religious school.)

amother

Dandelion

Sun, Feb 25 2024, 3:33 pm

amother Canary wrote:

Its actually a machloket if wearing a kippa all of the time is necessary or not.
I know quiet a few dati men who do not always wear a kippa.

amother

Canary

Sun, Feb 25 2024, 3:43 pm

amother Dandelion wrote:

Its actually a machloket if wearing a kippa all of the time is necessary or not.
I know quiet a few dati men who do not always wear a kippa.

That I get, in a non-Jewish environment etc. They hold it's not necessary even in a Jewish setting like a school event? I know it was a machlokes by the Rishonim if it is an obligation or Midas Chasidus, but was not aware that nowadays poskim consider it entirely optional (assuming aside for when making a bracha or davening?)

amother

Tuberose

Sun, Feb 25 2024, 4:03 pm

amother Canary wrote:

Just saying, in my experience, the vast majority of adult, married mainstream DL men do wear kippot in public, cetrainly where I live. Teenagers may ditch it temporarily as part of their rebellion. I know only one family father who used to and now doesn't, even though his wife keeps covering her hair.
Suppose some communities tend more towards what I'd call dati-lite.

Reality

Sun, Feb 25 2024, 4:18 pm

amother Canary wrote:

It's usually Sephardic men who keep their kippa in their pocket and put it on when they make a bracha.

amother

Dandelion

Sun, Feb 25 2024, 4:22 pm

Reality wrote:

It's usually Sephardic men who keep their kippa in their pocket and put it on when they make a bracha.

Nope, not what I was talking about above. I know ashkenazi guys who are completely dati but just choose to not always wear their kippa. Nothing specifically for when they daen or make brachot.

DrMom

Sun, Feb 25 2024, 4:28 pm

amother Dandelion wrote:

Nope, not what I was talking about above. I know ashkenazi guys who are completely dati but just choose to not always wear their kippa. Nothing specifically for when they daen or make brachot.

So when do they wear it if not to make a bracha or daven?

Reality

Sun, Feb 25 2024, 4:29 pm

amother Dandelion wrote:

Nope, not what I was talking about above. I know ashkenazi guys who are completely dati but just choose to not always wear their kippa. Nothing specifically for when they daen or make brachot.

I don't get your question then. This is something that is hard for those specific men and they are struggling. Mainstream DL men wear kippot.

amother

Canary

Sun, Feb 25 2024, 5:35 pm

Reality wrote:

I don't get your question then. This is something that is hard for those specific men and they are struggling. Mainstream DL men wear kippot.

Ah, no problem, that makes total sense to me. It was implied that it was considered acceptable halachicly not to wear one. I have no issue with finding certain mitzvos hard, I find plenty hard myself.

amother

Seagreen

Sun, Feb 25 2024, 9:40 pm

tryinghard wrote:

20% and 50% both sound absolutely outrageous, tbh. That literally means 1 out of every 5 kids goes OTD. Don't believe it.

The number of 20% are those who openly go OTD. I suppose that the chareidi community has a much higher "hidden OTD" or let's call it "hypocrisy" rate, I.e. people who do whatever they want in private, but still act publicly as if they were not OTD. This is for the simple reason that chareidim have much more to lose when they go openly OTD.

I even heard that rabbonim encourage hypocrisy so as not to break up families, or maybe it is to keep their official retention rate high.

essie14

Sun, Feb 25 2024, 11:32 pm

amother Canary wrote:

Many sefardic men only wear a kippah when davening or making a bracha.
And some families are not religious and send to religious schools. It's very common in Israel.

amother

Canary

Sun, Feb 25 2024, 11:34 pm

essie14 wrote:

Many sefardic men only wear a kippah when davening or making a bracha.
And some families are not religious and send to religious schools. It's very common in Israel.

Thank you! Learned something new.