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Forum
-> Parenting our children
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amother
OP
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 Fri, Mar 15 2024, 1:03 am
In the threads about "being parentified" as a child, there were situations where a majority of the users here agreed that the person was parentified as a child. However, other users tended to normalize or even idealize the situation "you were just helping out your mother" "don't let users on Imamother tell you that the situation had anything negative" "this was completely normal in the good old times".
I ask myself if those are persons who do the same to their children and therefore could not bear to hear that it is not acceptable to overload chidren with responsibilities?
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amother
Wallflower
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Fri, Mar 15 2024, 1:03 am
What are you expecting the responses to be, "yes I do"? 
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amother
Crimson
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Fri, Mar 15 2024, 1:08 am
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Yes most definitely. Or they are victims that are protecting their state of denial.
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amother
Eggshell
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Fri, Mar 15 2024, 1:15 am
Some kids parentify themselves.
I am more laid back for example about my toddler playing in the yard. I'll keep an eye on him, but if he trips and falls I'm okay with that. He needs to learn from experience, and a little tumble in the grass is not dangerous. I'll go over and pick him up and kiss him and let him play more.
My 8yo can't handle it. She is constantly running behind him and trying to keep him from falling.
I repeatedly tell her that he is fine, she can go play herself. But it's hard for her to do it.
Is she parentified?
I have other kids that will assume responsibilities that were not given to them. Like sometimes it's okay for a baby to whine in her crib for a few minutes while I put the other kids to bed. I didn't ask the 13yo to take her out, and while I appreciate it (I don't LIKE when kids cry), I have to keep letting her know that I'm the mother, I know the baby isn't thrilled right now, and it's not her responsibility to make sure she's happy.
Is she parentified?
In my mind parentifying is giving over too large a burden of responsibility to a child. A child can have a chore like emptying trash cans, and it can be their responsibility. Cooking dinner is generally too large of a responsibility, cooking Shabbos is far too large, and taking care of a small baby all night is WAY too much responsibility for a child.
In my home, I have to fight it from the other direction. When a child volunteers too much I have to keep reminding them that I am in charge and they don't have to feel responsible.
But I totally get that a mother would just be grateful for her children being so helpful and accept the assistance gracefully, not even noticing when it slides over time from volunteer into responsibility.
It's harder for me to understand the mothers who intentionally plan their lives around the assistance they expect from their kids and teens. Yes every child should contribute to the household in some way, but that doesn't mean you're not the mother anymore. Maybe they view "in charge of supper" or "in charge of laundry" as minor tasks like sweeping the kitchen floor on Thursdays, when they are major mental and physical loads?
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amother
Lightyellow
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Fri, Mar 15 2024, 1:23 am
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To what can you attribute your kids being so helpful at home?
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amother
Eggshell
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Fri, Mar 15 2024, 1:27 am
Their nature? Higher sensitivity than me? Learning kindness from my husband? Who knows.
It isn't always the help I'm looking for, mind you  I'd rather have someone sweep the kitchen floor (a task I do need done) than keep the toddler from falling (which I am not sure is so good for his development).
If you're trying to imply something, maybe you're right. Maybe I should be a more proactive parent and hold my baby during the entire bedtime and not let kids fall on the grass. But this is the type of mother I am. My kids don't have to be the same kinds of parents when they get married, but that doesn't mean I have to change just because they will make it their responsibility when it really isn't.
If I didn't cook supper at all and they stepped in, we'd have a problem. But different child rearing styles are not the same story at all.
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amother
Wallflower
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Fri, Mar 15 2024, 1:29 am
Sometimes things bother kids and they have a hard time handling it being the way they don't like
I.e. mess/dirt/noise (crying baby)
And as they are children they don't necessarily know how to let go and try to control all the variables
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amother
OP
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Fri, Mar 15 2024, 1:36 am
| amother Eggshell wrote: | Some kids parentify themselves.
I am more laid back for example about my toddler playing in the yard. I'll keep an eye on him, but if he trips and falls I'm okay with that. He needs to learn from experience, and a little tumble in the grass is not dangerous. I'll go over and pick him up and kiss him and let him play more.
My 8yo can't handle it. She is constantly running behind him and trying to keep him from falling.
I repeatedly tell her that he is fine, she can go play herself. But it's hard for her to do it.
Is she parentified?
I have other kids that will assume responsibilities that were not given to them. Like sometimes it's okay for a baby to whine in her crib for a few minutes while I put the other kids to bed. I didn't ask the 13yo to take her out, and while I appreciate it (I don't LIKE when kids cry), I have to keep letting her know that I'm the mother, I know the baby isn't thrilled right now, and it's not her responsibility to make sure she's happy.
Is she parentified?
In my mind parentifying is giving over too large a burden of responsibility to a child. A child can have a chore like emptying trash cans, and it can be their responsibility. Cooking dinner is generally too large of a responsibility, cooking Shabbos is far too large, and taking care of a small baby all night is WAY too much responsibility for a child.
In my home, I have to fight it from the other direction. When a child volunteers too much I have to keep reminding them that I am in charge and they don't have to feel responsible.
But I totally get that a mother would just be grateful for her children being so helpful and accept the assistance gracefully, not even noticing when it slides over time from volunteer into responsibility.
It's harder for me to understand the mothers who intentionally plan their lives around the assistance they expect from their kids and teens. Yes every child should contribute to the household in some way, but that doesn't mean you're not the mother anymore. Maybe they view "in charge of supper" or "in charge of laundry" as minor tasks like sweeping the kitchen floor on Thursdays, when they are major mental and physical loads? |
All of those are very good questions.
Because there are children who feel responsible and step up to the plate when nobody else does it.
And I think those are the children who are most taken advantage of.
I am not saying that your children are parentified, but it is a slippery slope.
I had a friend whose oldest daughter was completely parentified from elementary school age on. This child stepped in on her own, because she saw it was necessary.
My friend had 10 children in less than 15 years plus her husband did not take on his responsibilities. So my friend was either physically suffering or depressed or both.
Now this daughter is an adult, and the mother admits that her daughter was nice and stepped in when it was necessary, but she also insists that no-one forced her to. She cannot understand how damaging the situation might have been. I have to add that she herself was also overloaded with responsabilities as a child.
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amother
Khaki
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Fri, Mar 15 2024, 1:40 am
Im not specifically answering your question, but I want to say, some kids on their own take on the burdens of the family more than others and are more likely to be in a position to be the parentified child.
Like a child of an an emotional abuser who tries to placate the parents bad moods..
Or fill in for their parents neglect around the house.
(Often oldest kids. )
As opposed to other kids who respond to bad situations in other ways. Like fighting back (and becoming the scapegoat) or trying to be invisible (the lost child)
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amother
Eggshell
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Fri, Mar 15 2024, 2:05 am
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One of the reasons I'm grateful that there is no suitable local girls high school is that my helpful teens are just not home. It's easy to let them help as much as they seem eager to do, and I'm glad that I don't have to keep worrying that they're doing too much.
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Hashem_Yaazor
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Fri, Mar 15 2024, 7:25 am
Parentifying is when a child is obliged and must act like a parent. Not when it's voluntary.
And being part of a family system where everyone has age appropriate responsibilities/chores is also not parentifying.
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amother
Winterberry
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Fri, Mar 15 2024, 7:39 am
| Hashem_Yaazor wrote: | Parentifying is when a child is obliged and must act like a parent. Not when it's voluntary.
And being part of a family system where everyone has age appropriate responsibilities/chores is also not parentifying. |
I don't know that the first part is always so clear. When a parent is not performing as expected as a parent, a child can feel obliged even without others imposing anything on him or her.
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amother
Crimson
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Fri, Mar 15 2024, 7:40 am
| Hashem_Yaazor wrote: | Parentifying is when a child is obliged and must act like a parent. Not when it's voluntary.
And being part of a family system where everyone has age appropriate responsibilities/chores is also not parentifying. |
It’s a very fine line of what’s voluntary. And saying to your kid there is no food for anyone isn’t voluntary. Not taking care of your kids and thereby forcing a responsible kid to step up and save everyone is not voluntary. If your child is doing over 40% you are most definitely parentifying them. It’s only not if it’s a team effort and you are there working alongside them and they have all the opportunities to be a child. So if they can’t go to school, do hw, play with friends or sleep at night, you are parentifying them.
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amother
Sunflower
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Fri, Mar 15 2024, 7:41 am
| Hashem_Yaazor wrote: | Parentifying is when a child is obliged and must act like a parent. Not when it's voluntary.
And being part of a family system where everyone has age appropriate responsibilities/chores is also not parentifying. |
Exactly.
This thread is why so many ppl 'need' therapy and are so selfish and messed up.
Hashem created different people including children w/ different personalities. Some like to help. A parent is not doing anything wrong if they are taking care of what they are supposed to take care of, & a child likes doing things even when they tell them that it's not necessary.
Also, sometimes there are certain circumstances in life where yes a child will need to step in a little more for a short amount of time.
Yes there is something wrong with a mother who dumps a newborn nightly into her child's room to care for. No there is nothing wrong with a mother asking a child to do that for a very short amount of time because someone is in the hospital for a week or something similar.
In most normal situations we are all just doing the best we can and people including children who are now grown up should stop judging their parents.
End rant.
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amother
Crimson
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Fri, Mar 15 2024, 7:43 am
| amother Sunflower wrote: | Exactly.
This thread is why so many ppl 'need' therapy and are so selfish and messed up.
Hashem created different people including children w/ different personalities. Some like to help. A parent is not doing anything wrong if they are taking care of what they are supposed to take care of, & a child likes doing things even when they tell them that it's not necessary.
Also, sometimes there are certain circumstances in life where yes a child will need to step in a little more for a short amount of time.
Yes there is something wrong with a mother who dumps a newborn nightly into her child's room to care for. No there is nothing wrong with a mother asking a child to do that for a very short amount of time because someone is in the hospital for a week or something similar.
In most normal situations we are all just doing the best we can and people including children who are now grown up should stop judging their parents.
End rant. |
Not a single person is talking about this situation. The situations were a child taking care of a baby every night and others having to shop, cook and clean alone every day or none of it would get done.
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singleagain
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Fri, Mar 15 2024, 7:50 am
Part of parentification is frequency and intent. And sometimes ppl will extrapolate frequency which is not always correct.
Also intent someone up thread mentioned they knew a girl who stepped in voluntarily but then of the mother came to rely on her help and that point is I think when the issues compounded.
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amother
Khaki
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Fri, Mar 15 2024, 8:09 am
What's the difference?
You can spend time writing a thesis on the definition of parentification and where it begins and ends, but ultimately the question is
At what point is it damaging to the kid?
And the answer would be different for each kid.
Or maybe flip it and ask what's good? How much responsibility is beneficial to kids?
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amother
Salmon
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Fri, Mar 15 2024, 8:09 am
Of course teenager steps in voluntarily. She doesn't want her shoes to stick to the floor and her baby brother to be seen with food around his mouth. That isn’t a healthy sign. It’s one where she doesn’t feel comfortable in her own home if she doesn’t step in. She definitely carries a burden in areas where she feels the parents don’t.
I can guarantee you that she doesn’t looove washing floors and baby’s face even though mom keeps telling other people that. My daughter just enjoys washing the floor. I never ask her to and she just does it all the time out of her own will… she’s just s clean type. Yeah, no.
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amother
Goldenrod
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Fri, Mar 15 2024, 8:29 am
Slightly off-topic, but my sister and I both had 1 night (not Shabbos) a week where we would make dinner. We enjoyed it! This was from when I was 12 or 13 and she was about 14.
IMO 7 days a week would have been too much, but ultimately, I think 7 days a week would have been better for me than 0 and not learning how to cook.
IME, parents not teaching their children to be independant (NOT teaching your teen to cook, etc)is a bigger problem that practical parentification. Emotional parentification is always bad though
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Mommyg8
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Fri, Mar 15 2024, 8:29 am
| amother Crimson wrote: | | Yes most definitely. Or they are victims that are protecting their state of denial. |
Hi! I'm assuming that you're talking to me.
I can give you all my children's phone numbers - you can call them and ask them if I ever made them lift a finger at home!!!!
I was speaking from experience. I made suppers often growing up - because I was forced to, not because I volunteered (I'm a pretty lazy person, unfortunately) - and I know plenty of people like me. I can't speak for others, but it didn't scar me at all, I still love to cook, I have made suppers every day of my married life except when I was sick. I thank Hashem that I was not in a position to need the help, boruch Hashem I did not need to work till 10pm when my children were growing up, and I did not need their help in other ways either.
Someone on the other thread said, if you can't do everything yourself, you shouldn't have children. Wow, eugenics at it's finest - only perfect people are allowed to have children?
I have had plenty of years to figure out if I am in denial (and plenty of suggestions from helpful people such as yourself), but I have searched my soul for years and years and nope, nothing came up. I'm good.
There were plenty of other mistakes my parents made, and plenty of other mistakes I have made as a parent, but this wasn't one of them.
I think we underestimate people's ability to gauge when they are being hurt or traumatized. There is a book called "The Body Keeps Score", your body is telling you what's bothering you. Unless something was so traumatic that it is impossible to process, people are generally aware that they are going through a traumatic event. It's silly to suggest otherwise.
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