S/o Do some users here parentify their children?

Mommyg8

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 8:32 am

amother Goldenrod wrote:

Slightly off-topic, but my sister and I both had 1 night (not Shabbos) a week where we would make dinner. We enjoyed it! This was from when I was 12 or 13 and she was about 14.

IMO 7 days a week would have been too much, but ultimately, I think 7 days a week would have been better for me than 0 and not learning how to cook.

IME, parents not teaching their children to be independant (NOT teaching your teen to cook, etc)is a bigger problem that practical parentification. Emotional parentification is always bad though

THIS is what I wanted to say next!

When parents treat grown teenagers like babies, it can be very hard for them to adjust to real life. Some of my friends who never had to lift a finger at home really struggled when they got married, but those of us who had to help had it much easier, IMO.

keym

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 8:35 am

In the original thread, a poster commented that she got up at night, cared for her baby siblings and brought them into her bed because her mother chose to ignore them and the crying was too difficult for her to handle.

Imo, that's a perfect example of the slippery slope
The mother is claiming that no one is asking her daughter to get up with the baby and therefore she's volunteering and is not parentified.
But that directly caused a level of responsibility that is not typical for a child to bear

I think that as parents, we need to be mindful when we choose to cut corners and do shortcuts. Particularly within "normal" standards.
If I expect my children to wear the same unwashed uniform for 3/4 days in a row and my teenager feels compelled to wash it more frequently, well it's a whole different and unacceptable conversation as opposed to if I were to make sure that they had clean uniforms every day, but if they want it ironed, they do it themselves.
Passively creating a situation where I do significantly below community norms and kids feel compelled pitch in is imo parentifying. Doing your best within the norms, but letting the kids know that extras (like ironing, kugels beyond chicken and rice, scrubbed house as opposed to not messy) are their responsibility feels ok.

I think that's what bothered me about the spinoff. The all or nothing on the mothers part and the passive learned helplessness on the fathers part. If the mother would have made simple suppers like chicken and rice, or chicken in the crockpot twice a week and the rest was sandwiches, then the fact that the OP offered to cook the rest would feel more like ironing.
The fact that the mother was not providing even basic standards for days on end as the solution and that the father was choosing to passively not improve or change anything is what bothers me that it was parentification. Just a passive parentification and not an aggressive abusive parentification.

Throw tomatoes

singleagain

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 8:41 am

keym wrote:

No tomatoes.. I think you summed it up perfectly!

amother

Honey

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 8:42 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

Hi! I'm assuming that you're talking to me.

I can give you all my children's phone numbers - you can call them and ask them if I ever made them lift a finger at home!!!!

I was speaking from experience. I made suppers often growing up - because I was forced to, not because I volunteered (I'm a pretty lazy person, unfortunately) - and I know plenty of people like me. I can't speak for others, but it didn't scar me at all, I still love to cook, I have made suppers every day of my married life except when I was sick. I thank Hashem that I was not in a position to need the help, boruch Hashem I did not need to work till 10pm when my children were growing up, and I did not need their help in other ways either.

Someone on the other thread said, if you can't do everything yourself, you shouldn't have children. Wow, eugenics at it's finest - only perfect people are allowed to have children?

I have had plenty of years to figure out if I am in denial (and plenty of suggestions from helpful people such as yourself), but I have searched my soul for years and years and nope, nothing came up. I'm good.

There were plenty of other mistakes my parents made, and plenty of other mistakes I have made as a parent, but this wasn't one of them.

I think we underestimate people's ability to gauge when they are being hurt or traumatized. There is a book called "The Body Keeps Score", your body is telling you what's bothering you. Unless something was so traumatic that it is impossible to process, people are generally aware that they are going through a traumatic event. It's silly to suggest otherwise.

This isn't about being perfect, it's about a parent maintaining their role as parent and care giver which is never a child's responsibility.
A healthy child should never worry about food/bills/.clean laundry or a clean home. If they are sand they feel the need to step in to make sure that these things happen, this home is a dysfunctional one regardless of the parents perfection levels.
No one blames a parent who can't be there, except that they can't be there because they aren't perfect, and looks for other ways to help them run their home without burdening their kids. Placing full responsibility on the kids because they also live here and the parent feels they can't do whatever parents do? That's wrong.
End of rant.

Mommyg8

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 8:43 am

I also don't understand - didn't understand it as a teen-ager and don't understand it now -

why it is ok to force teenagers to sit through x hours of school, with x hours of homework every night, with absolutely zero utility for anybody (I vaguely remember learning something about the different dynasties in China, nope, never came up in my life since!).

And yet, to be useful - help cook or clean or take care of the children - not in a traumatic way - is not ok.

I literally think I was traumatized by high school. Would love to hear your opinion as to why I wasn't.

amother

Crimson

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 8:44 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

My kid help plenty. They are in charge of toys, their rooms, putting their laundry away, helping with siblings like watching them in the yard when I need to get things done. But if they are sick, have too much hw, are away etc.. I do those things. So it’s a not a situation where life will fall apart without them and they do a tiny percent. Also 90% of their day is just being a child. I think it’s terrible if kids never lift a finger and I think parentifying is terrible. There is a middle ground and too many can’t find it.

Mommyg8

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 8:49 am

amother Honey wrote:

There are a lot of should, and needs, in your post.

I have a friend who has an expression "working hard is the easiest type of hard" (probably didn't repeat it right) and what it means to me is that out of the hardships in life, working hard is one of the easier ones. Easier than being hungry or not having a place to sleep, easier than being emotionally hurt or abused, etc.

I would 10x rather make supper every night than be hurt or abused. I really don't think this is as damaging as you are making it sound.

"A healthy child should never worry about food/bills/clean laundry" - she didn't. she had food, money, clean laundry (supposedly, at least she didn't say she didn't). Do you know what worrying about food looks like? It's when there a child is hungry and there isn't any food to eat (yes I know people who grew up this way, in the US). Not when a child makes supper on their own and everyone has food (why is doing homework every night no matter what ok, and making supper isn't? Crazy world we live in).

Mommyg8

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 8:51 am

amother Crimson wrote:

I was never in a position where I had to work until 10 pm to make ends meet. I don't judge those who are. As they say, first walk a mile in their shoes....

Life is not the same for everybody, and the middle ground is not the same for everybody.

I know children who were forced to clean/cook/take care of younger siblings, were punished and yelled at when they didn't do it correctly. THAT is wrong in everyone's book. That is not what happened here.

amother

Khaki

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 8:53 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

It's a good question.

Teenagers can handle a good a amount of responsibility. School obligations are good, and at a certain point maybe too much.

But school obligations exist, we're not pulling our daughters out of school...

So if teenage girls are getting so much responsibility at home, that they can't also perform at school, then that's a definite sign it's too much...

(The balance was different in other centuries, more home expectations and less school... )

amother

Crimson

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 8:55 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

There are many poor people. Yet most find a way to not force the children to share that massive burden. And for the record my parents came home very late at night. It’s one thing I realized should never be done as parent. One parent needs to be parenting. So yes we had times where we lived on very little but my kids didn’t know what they were missing because I was here to make them feel safe and secure and like children.

amother

Leaf

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 8:55 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

I think we underestimate people's ability to gauge when they are being hurt or traumatized. There is a book called "The Body Keeps Score", your body is telling you what's bothering you. Unless something was so traumatic that it is impossible to process, people are generally aware that they are going through a traumatic event. It's silly to suggest otherwise.

It's not that we underestimate, it's that we can actually create mental health issues within ourselves by perseverating, over-analyzing and coming up with flaws and imperfections in our past histories. Jmo.

Mommyg8

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 8:57 am

amother Khaki wrote:

The OP of the thread I responded to said it did not affect her school work, and it did not affect her friendships. That's why I responded the way I did.

This is the yardstick for parents - and I see this ALL THE TIME - your child is telling you when it is too much. Not in words, but in action.

I know someone who I thought was parentifying their child. I was extremely not shocked when she confided in me that her child is not happy and is not doing so well emotionally. She was bewildered, but I wasn't.

ETA: For younger children. Teenagers will tell you in words, no need to worry!!!!

Last edited by Mommyg8 on Fri, Mar 15 2024, 9:08 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Honeydew

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 8:58 am

amother Eggshell wrote:

Some kids parentify themselves.

I am more laid back for example about my toddler playing in the yard. I'll keep an eye on him, but if he trips and falls I'm okay with that. He needs to learn from experience, and a little tumble in the grass is not dangerous. I'll go over and pick him up and kiss him and let him play more.

My 8yo can't handle it. She is constantly running behind him and trying to keep him from falling.

I repeatedly tell her that he is fine, she can go play herself. But it's hard for her to do it.

Is she parentified?

I have other kids that will assume responsibilities that were not given to them. Like sometimes it's okay for a baby to whine in her crib for a few minutes while I put the other kids to bed. I didn't ask the 13yo to take her out, and while I appreciate it (I don't LIKE when kids cry), I have to keep letting her know that I'm the mother, I know the baby isn't thrilled right now, and it's not her responsibility to make sure she's happy.

Is she parentified?

In my mind parentifying is giving over too large a burden of responsibility to a child. A child can have a chore like emptying trash cans, and it can be their responsibility. Cooking dinner is generally too large of a responsibility, cooking Shabbos is far too large, and taking care of a small baby all night is WAY too much responsibility for a child.

In my home, I have to fight it from the other direction. When a child volunteers too much I have to keep reminding them that I am in charge and they don't have to feel responsible.

But I totally get that a mother would just be grateful for her children being so helpful and accept the assistance gracefully, not even noticing when it slides over time from volunteer into responsibility.

It's harder for me to understand the mothers who intentionally plan their lives around the assistance they expect from their kids and teens. Yes every child should contribute to the household in some way, but that doesn't mean you're not the mother anymore. Maybe they view "in charge of supper" or "in charge of laundry" as minor tasks like sweeping the kitchen floor on Thursdays, when they are major mental and physical loads?

You sound like a nice person. But it also sounds like your laid back parenting style does make some of the older kids anxious and like they need to step up and help. Just something to think about.

amother

Honey

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 9:00 am

Mommyg8 wrote:

The word is help.
When you ask for your child's help, is she understanding that that's what she's doing- helping? She's not the one worrying about a hot meal tonight, her mother is. Her mother needs her help so she's pitching in.
I ask my kids to help all the time, I believe in them not being entitled or spoiled. But I'm there when they're helping and am working along with them. If they fill in for me because I'm not around for whatever reason, they know it's a special circumstance and that I appreciate their help, not that now they'll be expected to do this on their own from now on.

amother

Lightyellow

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 9:02 am

amother Eggshell wrote:

Their nature? Higher sensitivity than me? Learning kindness from my husband? Who knows.

It isn't always the help I'm looking for, mind you Smile

I'd rather have someone sweep the kitchen floor (a task I do need done) than keep the toddler from falling (which I am not sure is so good for his development).

If you're trying to imply something, maybe you're right. Maybe I should be a more proactive parent and hold my baby during the entire bedtime and not let kids fall on the grass. But this is the type of mother I am. My kids don't have to be the same kinds of parents when they get married, but that doesn't mean I have to change just because they will make it their responsibility when it really isn't.

If I didn't cook supper at all and they stepped in, we'd have a problem. But different child rearing styles are not the same story at all.

No what would I be implying? I want to know how your kids are so helpful. As I asked.

amother

Leaf

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 9:03 am

amother Crimson wrote:

Or we just don’t understand why we have various issues and don’t understand the cause

I agree that that is also a possibility.

But that said, the norm right now is to find trauma everywhere and encourage this perseveration on emotional states and psychoanalysis of what caused them, as though if only we understood can can blame certain mistakes of our parents on struggles that we are having as adults, then those struggles will disappear.

amother

Gardenia

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 9:04 am

amother Eggshell wrote:

Your 8 year old needs you to be less chilled and relaxed sometimes so she can go and play. A parent needs to understand a child's emotional needs and sometimes change themselves for a child. Your daughter needs to trust that her parents are responsible enough to watch their toddler the way she understands and feels.

Mommyg8

Fri, Mar 15 2024, 9:05 am

amother Honey wrote:

But are you working until 10 pm every night to feed your family? I'm not.

Also I think there is a big difference between asking a 10 year old to help (not ok) or asking a 16 year old. Who is really almost an adult. A 16 year old can do it himself/herself without your working along with them. They can have a lot of responsibility without falling apart.

I personally think it's ok for a 16 year old to know that x,y or z is her responsibility (if she's able to handle it along with her other responsibilities). It's also easier in the sense that a 16 year old will be expressive about what they can or cannot handle (a ten year old would be too young to understand, generally, IMO).