if youre being supported finacially by one side

↑ Chayalle

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 11:51 am

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

There is a special place in heaven for Tzadikos like you. Now please dont interfere in OPs SB with her ILs. Your implication that OPs ILs dont truly love their kids cause they..... and your insistence that everyone has to do like you, because that is the standard you have set - doesnt shtim with Yiddishkeit as I learned it.
Wishing you all a Chag Kasher VeSameach.

I do not mean to imply ch'v that OP's in-laws don't love their kids...not at all. Just sometimes people don't think about what it feels like to the other side. And how much it benefits everyone when all are happy.
I'm not sure how this is against yiddishkeit. It's just a POV, an explanation of a need, a daughter's longing to be at her father's seder, maybe ONCE every few years could be an option.....

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 12:06 pm

Chayalle wrote:

Do you want OP to go to her ILs for Leil HaSeder with resentment because you believe her ILs are wrong (and you would never act like them - implying your own tzidkus and their rishus)? You havent even heard their side of things.
Sowing seeds of discontentment by criticizing OPs ILs is against the Yiddishkeit I was taught. Expounding in your last post "a daughters longing" and screaming it out with capital letters, is truly overboard. Telling OPs ILs what their options are, is just presumptuous.

amother

↑ Electricblue

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 12:09 pm

I think that everyone is really agreeing over here.

1) Parents should never use money as a way to control their children.

2) If ones parents do control them with money, the children should rethink if it is worth it for them.

3) Parents who are especially selfless give and give without expecting anything in return.

4) A parent who flies their children in for YT for their own benefit is not wicked, especially when they tell DIL to spent time with her family as well.

5)However, if the parents expect them to come because they are supporting them, circle back to number 2.

SEE, we all agree !! (I hope)

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya ↓

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 1:06 pm

amother Electricblue wrote:

I see it differently than your black and white rules/ definitions. This is not the Aseres Hadibros. Each situation has its own nuances and exceptions. We all consider ourselves selfless and not controlling. In truth we all have demands and expectations. Some are more subtle. OPs parents aren't supporting and are also making demands. Hosting second days isn't good enough for them they have to complain?
.
If OP feels like her ILs are controlling, she can choose to self support.

amother

↑ Puce

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 2:53 pm

amother Puce wrote:

If someone is paying thousands of dollars so that their child, child-in-law, and grandchildren can spend the seder with them then it is bad middot for anyone to ask them to spend the seder elsewhere, or guilt them for spending it with those who were generous enough to pay such a large sum of money.

It is not bad middot for the person who put out possibly even $7000 for a specific reason to ask that the reason actually take place.

It is on anyone who gets to enjoy the benefit of that expense, and who didn't contribute to footing the bill themselves, to be grateful to those who put out the money and allowed them to benefit from it.

So, for instance, if my in-laws pay to bring me and my husband to them for Pesach and want us at their seder table, it is ungrateful, rude, and just plain bad middot for my own mother to insist that we spend seder and chol hamoed with her and only last days with my in-laws. My mother did that once, by the way, and my in-laws swallowed it and didn't say anything to me, but that is just one little bit of the bad middot that my mother displays.

So, for instance, if my mother would like us to spend seder with her then she should either pay for our tickets in their entirety, split the tickets with us, or ask to split the tickets and the time with my in-laws, and work things out with them in a way that is fair to both sides.

It is all very nice to want to spend equal time with both sides but then both sides should be paying for the tickets. If one side pays for everything then it's rude and just plain bad middot to ask them to give up the main part.

I didn't see - maybe I missed it - that OP's in-laws had refused to let her spend the seder with her parents, I only saw that she wanted to and wasn't sure that it was right to ask. So the answer is, no it is not right to ask. And if you ask and they say yes they are true tzaddikim, please ask them to give us a bracha and daven for us, I will send you our names. But it is not right to ask. And I'm sorry that you are being parentified by your parents who aren't good at managing their own emotions without sharing them with you and having you help them/ emotionally support them so that they can continue their lives. I wish you all much bracha and hatzlacha.

I'm this poster.

DH was looking over my shoulder so I gave him a summary of this thread. He says that if you have been doing this for a few years straight (3-4) then your HUSBAND - not you, him, because these are HIS parents - should politely turn to HIS PARENTS and ask them if they mind if you switch the order around one time (like once in 4 years, if you do this every year) "so that he and his wife can spend the seder with her family."

Again, he would be the one asking his own parents, to go lifnim mishuras hadin to do something nice, a chessed, for you and your parents, and it would be clear to his parents (and yours!!) that this is a request that won't be repeated next year and it would be requested maximum once in four (or three, or five) years or so, but not something that your parents think is expected or they are entitled to next year (or at all).

Anyways I am going to agree to disagree with DH about your husband asking his parents at all, but I still think his opinion is worth posting here. LOL

↑ notshanarishona

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 7:39 pm

Yeah if your kids move to E”Y without money or support you definitely won’t see them. It’s part of making a decision to live in a different country. We knew when we were moving that we wouldn’t see our parents every year. I missed a siblings chasunah . Unfortunately sometimes sacrifices are made when it’s something that’s good for you.
Here no one is saying one side owns the couple but definitely if they fly them in they have the right to be flying them to visit when it’s convenient for them. There would be nothing wrong of them being nice and allowing it but in my opinion to ask is a chutzpah.

↑ B'Syata D'Shmya

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 7:49 pm

amother Electricblue wrote:

I hope not!!
OPs parents werent controlling her. Implying that they are - is insulting. OP chose to be supported by her ILs and doesnt want that deal to end. She fargins her ILs this request (they dont ask much of her).

Fact is - when you are supported by one set of parents, in any manner or form- no different than living at home as an adult, you have an obligation to them over the other set of parents, unless you want to risk losing that support. Parents can choose to spend their money elsewhere and being supported after marriage is not a given and should be appreciated. OP lives in Israel out of choice. OP couldnt afford the trip on her own so no one is controlling her. She is gifted the trip in on condition she spend Leil Seder by her benefactor who she wants to spend time with anyway.

2. Being self-less is not necessarily healthy. A benefactor doesnt need to be a shmattah. They are allowed to expect their reasonable requests to be respected. That doesnt turn their requests to "their own benefit". Others benefit too. OPs parents get to enjoy the second days with their kids, as a present from their machataynister.

To call OPs ILs controlling over this issue is really unfair. I can empathize with OPs mothers situation, but this is reality. We dont get to dictate our married daughters life either. I imagine OPs mother would rather her daughter marry a local boy, live a block away, have a SIL who works and learns etc.

If OP really wanted to spend Leil Seder with her parents, she knows what she can do. Her lifestyle is her choice and it comes with a cost she is willing to pay. She cant make everyone happy.