if youre being supported finacially by one side

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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Pesach

If youre being supported finacially by one side

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amother

Puce

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 3:39 am

kugelEater wrote:

It sounds like OP's parents are giving her a hard time since they wish that they can have her family for the sedarim, while OP (rightfully) feels that the right thing to do is to go to her in laws since they are paying for their tickets. Nothing to do even with who is or isn't supporting them, just the fact that they paid for their tickets does somewhat entitle her in laws to have first picks of when to host her family.

I have honestly no idea how to tell this to your parents, but really, you are right and it's too bad. If they want to host you for the sedarim, maybe they should take it up with your in laws directly, and be prepared to split the cost of the tickets. If that's not something that they are prepared to do, maybe you can move your return tickets to be later so you can spend more time with them after Yom Tov.

I don't understand the people who are saying that OP's in laws have bad middos. I don't think anyone in this situation has better or worse middos, it is a tricky situation that everyone needs to be mature about and handle it.

If someone is paying thousands of dollars so that their child, child-in-law, and grandchildren can spend the seder with them then it is bad middot for anyone to ask them to spend the seder elsewhere, or guilt them for spending it with those who were generous enough to pay such a large sum of money.

It is not bad middot for the person who put out possibly even $7000 for a specific reason to ask that the reason actually take place.

It is on anyone who gets to enjoy the benefit of that expense, and who didn't contribute to footing the bill themselves, to be grateful to those who put out the money and allowed them to benefit from it.

So, for instance, if my in-laws pay to bring me and my husband to them for Pesach and want us at their seder table, it is ungrateful, rude, and just plain bad middot for my own mother to insist that we spend seder and chol hamoed with her and only last days with my in-laws. My mother did that once, by the way, and my in-laws swallowed it and didn't say anything to me, but that is just one little bit of the bad middot that my mother displays.

So, for instance, if my mother would like us to spend seder with her then she should either pay for our tickets in their entirety, split the tickets with us, or ask to split the tickets and the time with my in-laws, and work things out with them in a way that is fair to both sides.

It is all very nice to want to spend equal time with both sides but then both sides should be paying for the tickets. If one side pays for everything then it's rude and just plain bad middot to ask them to give up the main part.

I didn't see - maybe I missed it - that OP's in-laws had refused to let her spend the seder with her parents, I only saw that she wanted to and wasn't sure that it was right to ask. So the answer is, no it is not right to ask. And if you ask and they say yes they are true tzaddikim, please ask them to give us a bracha and daven for us, I will send you our names. But it is not right to ask. And I'm sorry that you are being parentified by your parents who aren't good at managing their own emotions without sharing them with you and having you help them/ emotionally support them so that they can continue their lives. I wish you all much bracha and hatzlacha.

kugelEater

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 3:42 am

I honestly think this should be between OP's parents and in-laws. She should not have to get in the middle of it. If her parents have a problem with her in law's generosity then they can take it up with them directly. and not get her involved.

amother

Puce

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 3:52 am

kugelEater wrote:

Yes, and their involving her instead of being adults and speaking directly with her in-laws is not a good sign.

B'Syata D'Shmya

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 4:39 am

amother Puce wrote:

Yes, and their involving her instead of being adults and speaking directly with her in-laws is not a good sign.

It can blow up in all their faces if OPs parents involve themselves with OPs ILs. For now this is the situation. OP and her dh choose to live off the generosity of his parents, and are being gifted trips. OPs parents are being gifted as well, they have a SIL who is learning full time and will spend time with the couple for the last days of Pesach - not a bad deal. OPs parents get their help putting away yuntif.
People should count their blessings instead of stirring up trouble.
OPs parents have expressed sadness at not having OP at their seder. Thats totally normal but since the situation is not likely to be changed, they will have to console themselves that OP is happy, well cared for and married to her Talmid Chacham.
OP is not guilty of any crime. Neither are her ILs or parents. This whole scenario is normal.
May Hashem bring Moshiach and things will be better for all.

ayelethashachar

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 4:51 am

amother Hydrangea wrote:

I'm in my fifties, supporting a married son. Try again.

Parents help their children because they WANT to, it's ridiculous to say I'm only helping them so that I, ME, ME should benefit.

As a rational adult, I WANT my children and grandchildren to have a good relationship with both sides. And in the end, it benefits ME as well.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR EXPRESSING THIS !! So much of our support we give our kids is very conditional. Its important to be awre of it.

Chayalle

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 5:19 am

I am beyond horrified at the views in these posts that indicate that money is the be all and end all of relationships. Especially if it's year after year. You fly in your kids one year, I can here they spend the best of YT with you, but when it's year after year, you are disserving yourself IMVHO.
I have a sister who flies her kids in for Pesach, and does not get involved in where they stay. Some years they are by her more, and sometimes they give the other side a chance. She cares about her kids, and knows they want to see the Seder at each side, and she gives them this ability. It is love for kids and grandkids, not love of self.
I'm not wealthy, but DH and I have a philosophy of giving our kids whatever we can. So we set our DD up in an apartment in such a way that she should be able to host her in-laws, (guest linen, etc...) because they are not local and do not get to see her as easily as we do. No, we didn't have an attitude of - let them pay if they want to be hosted.
When it's all about you, you risk losing the baby with the bathwater. You have kids who may come to you because they feel they must - not because they want to.

Chayalle

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 5:21 am

kugelEater wrote:

I would never involve myself in something that could affect my child's relationship with her in-laws.
If my child were OP, I would tell her to go to her in-laws.
But if I were the in-laws, I'd tell OP to feel free to go to her parents. It would be an act of love from me to my children.

B'Syata D'Shmya

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 5:27 am

amother Hydrangea wrote:

Because these are YOUR children and grandchildren, and YOU want them to be happy.

This is not at all the same as helping your sister. These are your children's grandparents, so yes, its selfish to say, you can only have a relationship with US because we paid for your tickets. You want your children and grandchildren to be happy. That's what being parents is all about, or should be.

You really cant impose your ethics, standards and life choices on others. Its great that you choose to be self-less . But please dont be judgemental to others who make other choices. Go walk 5 steps in their shoes first.
Besides who is to say OP is unhappy, its her parents that are unhappy and making her feel guilty for her life choices and their consequences.

amother

Charcoal

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 5:30 am

Chayalle wrote:

I think in this case it's a little different. In laws support them fully. And fly them in. And let them go to her parents second days. Her parents seem like the ungrateful ones to me. They get to see their daughter for half of yom tov without contributing and still complain.

amother

Carnation

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 5:34 am

amother Charcoal wrote:

They “let” them?? You think if you pay for something you now own your kids and every step they take? I really thought this generation was going to move past this type of abusive attitude. But apparently we will have another generation of strained relationships with parents thinking they own their kids instead of building loving and caring relationships with them.

amother

Lightgray

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 5:37 am

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

I'm with chayalle on this one. The question I would ask of the paying set of parents is - are you paying the money for the couples benefit to come and enjoy YT, or are you paying them to come for your benefit so that they're by your seder?

If its the former, then you would let them decide how they want to spend YT. If it's the latter - it speaks for itself. You should at least be honest with the couple and tell them outright that you are doing this for yourself.

Personally, this is just means of controlling a couple via money. If you are truly looking to help your children for YT, then you would let them work out YT their own way. Giving with heavy strings attached is not truly giving.

Simple1

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 5:39 am

There are two different things that have to be dealt with separately, support and flying them in. We don’t know the details, but what if the in laws are really stretching themselves for those tickets? In that case the other side should be grateful to spend any part of YT with the kids or offer to chip in for expenses. I would say differently if they took the whole YT for themselves.

amother

Charcoal

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 5:40 am

amother Carnation wrote:

Money comes with strings attached. You want to be an adult but act like a child and take every penny from your parents? Obviously ideally parents will just give and give and not say anything but realistically that doesn't happen. If it bothers someone so much they can get a job and support themselves. Or at least fly themselves where they want to go.

Simple1

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 5:41 am

And second days is not necessarily a bad deal. There is less pressure with balancing the different needs and wants for a Seder and they get to look forward to the last days.

lamplighter

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 5:44 am

The in laws aren't gifting the a trip to the US (or wherever), they are bringing them in to spend pesach with them. This is not about control at all, OP can decline the offer.
She does go to her parents, her parents just wish she would have the seders by them. It's ok for people to be sad or disappointed or wish for something different that doesn't make them right.

amother

Lightgray

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 5:45 am

amother Charcoal wrote:

Why? We are talking about money being provided by parents, not banks or strangers or organizations. If I give money to my kids, I want them to use it as per their wished, not mine. Am I giving it to help them or help myself?

amother

Lightgray

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 5:49 am

lamplighter wrote:

Well then, this needs to be stated very clearly. The in laws aren't looking to help the young couple, they are paying for their presence on YT.

It's not a generous gesture. It's no different than paying for a service for themselves. And if they state it as such, then I have no issue with it. It's their perogative. What I do have issue with is if the in-laws make it out to be as help for the couple - for the couples benefit when it is mostly about themselves.

amother

Hydrangea

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 5:50 am

B'Syata D'Shmya wrote:

I didn't CHOOSE to be selfless. Its something that was ingrained in me by my parents all through the years. They were mechanech me/us that we have to treat the other side equally even if my parents were the ones supporting us and helping us out on a disproportionate level. It was my father who drilled in to me over and over again that money comes from Hashem and is not his. I thought this was something basic, like breathing, but apparently not.

Right, OP's parents are unhappy, which is very normal in a situation like this. It's very hard to be pushed to the side just because you don't have money. It's a horrible feeling, I hope you never know from it.

OP still has a kibbud av veim obligation to BOTH sets of parents. And her children deserve a relationship with both sets of parents. I would have suggested that OP ask a Rav what to do, but nobody is asking me.

amother

Charcoal

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 5:50 am

amother Lightgray wrote:

Obviously that's ideal but not everyone feels that way. And we are talking about fully supporting them for years and flying them in 1-2x a year. If all they ask in return is to go to them for the seder then op has a pretty good deal going. Not sure what the big deal is.

amother

Carnation

Tue, Apr 02 2024, 5:53 am

amother Charcoal wrote:

It’s insane that people think this. Be a good parent. Help your kids because you love them. And stop thinking you own them. And it does happen, there are plenty of good people out there who do help their kids and expect nothing in return. And those relationships thrive. Unlike these transactional ones.

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