S/o coupons/middle class

TravelHearter

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 9:32 am

Can I ask everyone a question?
What is with the lack of ‘fargining’??
I 100% understand the difficulty of being middle class, barely affording life, and not getting coupons/help that kollel/chinuch families seem to get this time of year.
Post away, vent, try to find solutions.
But each of these posts has an undercurrent of jealousy and ‘it’s not fair’ towards those that do get these things. And each post turns into a bashing thread. Yes, it may not be fair, but why let it effect you?? You can have a hard time financially without getting any sort of benefits, or you can have a hard time financially and be jealous and complain and look down on others. Which seems to be better?
Every time I see one of these posts I commiserate at the beginning of the post, and then once I start reading through it I just leave the thread because it’s so negative. I get it. It’s hard. We are all going through the financial pressure and crunch. But how is pointing fingers and complaining about others helping you??

amother

Ultramarine

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 9:39 am

It's not jealousy. It's sheer frustration at a twisted system.
Those that don't understand it, say that it's jealousy. But it isn't.
The middle class are struggling more than anyone else. It is hard to see the same people getting all handouts & help, when nothing is available to the middle class.
It's a twisted system where the "poor" live on higher standards.
We are allowed to point out problems within our systems, it's not jealousy.

BusyBoys

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 9:42 am

I find that to be true as well.

Could be many reasons.

1. There is a segment of ppl who would have loved to have their husband in kollel still.
For reasons beyond their control, they went out to work, but there is a grieving process. And seeing kollel ppl put on a pedestal hurts.

2. There is definitely some truth that middle class is strapped for cash in a way that ppl on govt programs are not. ( the basics of food , insurance, and sometimes rent). These basics are a fortune and push ppl over the edge many times.

Just some thoughts.

TravelHearter

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 9:47 am

I do understand it. I am in the same rut as everyone else on these threads.
Pointing out a problem in our system is one thing. Having each and every one of these threads turn into one large negative/complaining thread is not that. I know people get things I don’t. But I don’t think allowing it headspace in my head is a good thing either.
Take any problem in society. If you have a similar issue, but don’t qualify for the benefit, why live your life complaining bitterly about those who do? Even if your point is right, your mindset should not be to continue to complain and feel bitter and bash. These threads encourage that sort of mindset. It’s a human emotion, and I get it, I would love these things too, and can’t afford them either. But my life would be so bitter and dark if I spent my life looking at what others have, even if I ‘deserve’ the same.

amother

Ultramarine

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 9:48 am

BusyBoys wrote:

I just want to add that people that receive government benefits, or receive help from organizations before yom tov, do not begin to understand what it means to live a life without it. They cannot understand the struggle.
If they'd understand it, no one would call the venting of the middle class, jealousy.

TravelHearter

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 9:50 am

@BusyBoys- very true. But then look at it as an emotional process, where the end goal is to let it go (mentally).
These threads aren’t about OPs and posters trying to move on. They just go in circles saying the same negative pints (that might be true) over and over. I hope I’m not being too harsh, I’m just trying to say my point more clearly.

groovy1224

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 9:54 am

It's not an undercurrent of jealousy, it's all about jealousy.

But to be fair, I can kind of get it. I know that the concept of social norms and societal pressure is laughed at on this site, but it is a real thing that many people stress about. So when these coupons are given out as some sort of 'equalizer', enabling those with lesser means to look and dress the same as the wealthy, it leaves those in the middle struggling because now their kids also want to look the same, but they are without the inherent wealth of the upper tier, and the built in assistance of the lower.

The bottom line is that people need to keep their eyes in their own wallets and stop adding up who else got what or how or how much. But I'm just saying I understand why it caused resentment.

TravelHearter

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 9:55 am

amother Ultramarine wrote:

Again, I don’t get the benefits either. I understand it, very much. And in life, I do struggle with jealousy occasionally. But I try to push through it and move on. A vent is to help someone feel better, so that they can then think more clearly about their own situation and try to move on.

Let me give a very different example: I have a child who needs certain therapies. I simply cannot afford it. The government doesn’t care, I don’t qualify for anything. So I have to pay. It’s hard seeing others getting therapy for their kids in a flippant way because it’s free, but that’s life! If Hashem wanted my kid to get free therapy He has plenty of ways to do that. If every time my kid went I’d get upset all over again then my life would be in a pretty bad place emotionally. Getting upset and jealous at a flaw in the system isn’t helping me practically.

amother

Forsythia

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 9:57 am

I will also add that the “handouts” up the standards.

When it was only the rich whose kids had high end new shoes for YT or school, it was ok, they are rich, and fine they have. But now it is both ends, and basically everyone but my kids and my kids feel bad/are the nebby ones which put undo social pressure on them and undo financial pressure on me.
The “poor” are the ones who have upped the standards. It used to be only the rich and they were privileged and that was OK. They had the fancy bar mitzvah/wedding-now it is everyone but my kid and it puts significant pressure on me. How is that fair?

TravelHearter

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 9:57 am

groovy1224 wrote:

But to be fair, I can kind of get it. I know that the concept of social norms and societal pressure is laughed at on this site, but it is a real thing that many people stress about. So when these coupons are given out as some sort of 'equalizer', enabling those with lesser means to look and dress the same as the wealthy, it leaves those in the middle struggling because now their kids also want to look the same, but they are without the inherent wealth of the upper tier, and the built in assistance of the lower.

I hear that.

amother

Stonewash

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 9:58 am

my kids don't get free lunches so they usually bring home lunch. many of their friends qualify for free. one of my kids had a classmate more then once try to convince her that there's some "program" where everyone gets free food and she should just tell her parents and she can also get the lunch. my daughter knew that wasn't the case but she was understandably not very happy especially when it happened the second time.

amother

Clematis

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:01 am

The problem is that it isn't a question of just fargining. It is actually hurting our families. When every single other person is getting new clothes, upping the standard for everyone else, it increases pressure on those who do not get help. It created a need where there was no need. (You don't need new clothing and shoes for YT but once every other kid has you suddenly "need").

We try to avoid peer pressure and not give in but it is very hard for kids/teens.

It also doesn't help when people boast about what they have and where they got it.

The system is messed up. Those who barely work or don't work have a much higher standard of living than those who work. And then they "humble brag" (or what is it called to complain as a boast?) about how hard it was to coordinate their kids outfits, make decorations/centerpieces for the Seder, or cook elaborate and expensive meals.

amother

Quince

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:05 am

You have to understand that some middle class can Barely afford life. My sisters husb is in kollel so she received $300 to shop for herself clothes , 250 to shop for her baby, plus another 80 for another store to buy new shoes for her baby that’s not even walking… plus more and more coupons.(she has just one kid) She is actually working full time in a professional position and makes more than our family, but since her husb is in kollel, they get everything. Ik it’s community dependent, but still it makes no sense. Some ppl have no clothes to put on their kids, yet some get coupons for hundreds of dollars to buy new in season expensive clothes. I’m personally not sure how to fix the system without giving to everyone which is impossible. These days you see on Imamother even ppl making 200k 300k 400k+++ complaining they aren’t managing etc etc etc. so who is managing, only if you make 1mil ????? I think the ppl giving the money out should be vetting more who really needs, so there’s enough for the ppl who really need. But most will tell you it’s hard to do that too. We need Mashiach!

amother

Linen

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:06 am

Im going to add that the campaigns and phone calls and ads really add problematically.
When I get bombarded with a message that everyone DESERVES new clothes and matza, and im dealing with desperation trying to cover tights.
When I get the calls and the knocks.
When I cant sleep at night, finally reach out to the organizations, only to be told that we should find a third job, their funds are limited for "the truly needy". Then we go outside and a neighbor is sharing how they didnt really NEED to buy the 3rd set of matching dresses but the organizations insisted that their kids deserve to be treated like princes princesses.
Yes, theres jealousy.
But also because im human, I have my limits.

amother

Winterberry

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:10 am

I just want to say my husband is in Kollel and we aren't offered hand outs. Maybe this is common by some of the large well known kollels? We do have the option to go to our rav and ask for help with yt and we could get tzedaka money. Which I'm pretty sure middle class struggling families can do as well.

We don't have money for extras and maybe what others would consider basics yet we never lack somehow. Hashem takes care of us in amazing ways. To all those feeling that others getting help is unjust I suggest changing your mindset and viewing it that Hashem sends each person exactly what they're supposed to get. The frustration will only make YOU miserable! It won't help you get what you need! Do your best and trust that Hashem will take care of your needs and you'll have a much easier time not looking at others.

notshanarishona

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:11 am

The lack of fargining comes in part from asked to donate for things that are “necessities “ for “poor people “ who live on higher standards than I do and for things I can’t afford for my own kids.

TravelHearter

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:11 am

The problem is there. 100%. And probably worse in some communities more than others. And yes, it’s human to feel the sting of it.
If it’s about those around you ‘humble bragging’, then don’t hang around them as much. Choose your friends. And if it’s people you can’t distance yourself from, like neighbors and family, remind yourself that yes it’s a problem, yes you feel jealous, and yes you will try to focus on something else.
Yes these are issues!!! But the goal of trying to move past it does not seem to exist on these threads. Everyone complaining and then responding to the complaints with more complaints just gets everyone who is effected to feel even more negative.
When there is something going on that I really don’t like, what bothers me more than the situation itself are the feelings I get in response that make me feel negative and blah. Those feelings may happen but I try to work through them.

amother

Ultramarine

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:14 am

groovy1224 wrote:

I promise you that it's not jealousy.
It's just venting in frustration about a system that's skewed and makes no sense.
Instead of the same people getting everything, they can have more people getting less. This isn't jealousy.

amother

Diamond

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:14 am

TravelHearter wrote:

Misery loves company. And some people feel better after complaining and hearing others are in the same boat as them.