S/o coupons/middle class

amother

Bone

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 4:57 pm

amother Ultramarine wrote:

This is unfortunately so true.
You are the exception to the rule by not taking what you were technically eligible for.

We made a decision not to take government assistance programs as well. It was what allowed us to increase our income without being held back like so many of our peers for fear of losing programs. Taking whatever one can get just not a way to live.

amother

Pistachio

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 5:01 pm

TravelHearter wrote:

Again, I don’t get the benefits either. I understand it, very much. And in life, I do struggle with jealousy occasionally. But I try to push through it and move on. A vent is to help someone feel better, so that they can then think more clearly about their own situation and try to move on.

Let me give a very different example: I have a child who needs certain therapies. I simply cannot afford it. The government doesn’t care, I don’t qualify for anything. So I have to pay. It’s hard seeing others getting therapy for their kids in a flippant way because it’s free, but that’s life! If Hashem wanted my kid to get free therapy He has plenty of ways to do that. If every time my kid went I’d get upset all over again then my life would be in a pretty bad place emotionally. Getting upset and jealous at a flaw in the system isn’t helping me practically.

Can you get OPWDD if he has a diagnosis?

amother

Lightcyan

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 5:06 pm

amother Bone wrote:

THIS. We should have a spin-off on this topic.

Honestly I can’t relate to the resentment. Dh and I never took any assistance whatsoever even when we were eligible. I will rather make do with less, than get assistance. Out goal was always to be self sufficient and not be hindered by needing to keep our Medicade etc.

Will everyone be able to survive this way? No. But I wish there was more push to attempt that, rather than people twisting themselves into pretzels to stay low income.

amother

Dimgray

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 5:09 pm

amother Lime wrote:

I hope this doesn’t derail the thread, and I know many will not agree.
But sometimes I feel the same about organizations that help Kallahs.. I completely understand the need for these organizations to help Kallahs who cannot afford basics for their new married life, and they should absolutely get what they need.
But sometimes I wonder if what they give Kallahs up the standards as well.
I didn’t get married with a set of China, a ton of small appliances microwaves etc, numerous sets of towels etc etc
It’s like saying this is what you need to be happy when your setting up a home
And it’s not true, you can be happy with the basics and the rest of it, you pay for yourself, use your gift money or get second hand, like I and many of my friends had to do, Because we didn’t qualify for the organizations, but our parents couldn’t afford to get us everything that our rich friends were getting.
But perhaps I’m wrong here, and the standard has been raised and organizations need to help people meet that standard…
I don’t know..

Yup yup yup. My husband never got any chosson gifts, no watch, sefarim, becher, nothing. We had to pay for everything in the apartment ourselves.

I didn't even own a sheitel, had to buy my own for very cheap and I don't really like it and I barely wear it. It's hurts so much all my corowkers have 3 and an apartment and a car and their husband is in Kollel while mine was forced to go out to work.

amother

Bone

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 5:38 pm

amother Dimgray wrote:

We were in the same boat (no savings other than chasunah gifts and no parental help) but DH stayed in kollel for years. We lived in a tiny studio basement with no a/c or amenities and an old beater car and took no vacations while I built up my earning potential.

There was no thought of buying even a dip or takeout item for shabbos. My DH outlasted most of his friends who were supported in kollel.

amother

Valerian

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 5:46 pm

amother Ultramarine wrote:

The craziest part of this is that kollel/chinuch automatically qualify regardless of their income/lifestyle & regardless if they need it or not.

Where do you live?
I live in Lakewood, in kollel, nobody is giving me cases of food. We actually donate to Tomchei Shabbos and I really hope it goes to people who need it and not just extras.

(I do get 20% off coupons to some expensive stores and throw them out and buy on Ali / Tottini / Target)

amother

Anemone

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 5:58 pm

notshanarishona wrote:

The lack of fargining comes in part from asked to donate for things that are “necessities “ for “poor people “ who live on higher standards than I do and for things I can’t afford for my own kids.

And this is exactly what I don't understand. You don't want to donate to these organizations? Don't! Its not a tax and nobody is forcing you. I feel like this attitude puts pressure on yourself which doesn't have to be there.

amother

Lightgray

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 9:07 pm

amother Charcoal wrote:

I've never gotten clothing coupons but I think that they work differently because they're donated by the stores, or part of their cost is donated by the stores. So then you need stores who are willing to collaborate, and they may end up being the higher end ones.

I'm speculating here. I don't really know.

Yes, I think this is it. I think if the stores offer 15% off to anybody in BMG, they end up having a lot more customers and therefore offer these coupons. the cheaper stores can't afford to do this, the more expensive ones do it for advertising. I don't get these coupons but I heard people talking about it. Also it seems like they don't give it to everybody, only people above a certain age, married with kids but I might be mistaken.

amother

Quince

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 9:28 pm

@ Amother lightgrey, it’s all location based. Some ppl get discounts in stores off the total. Some get gift cards worth a few hundred to buy whatever they want. My sister said that in her husbands kollel they handed out gift cards to everyone without asking any questions. Everyone was allowed to take. (She doesn’t need I know forsure, and when I asked why she’s taking, she said there’s so much extra gift cards donated, and everyone’s taking, like they are trying to give them all away so why shouldn’t she take….) it’s a sad mentality. I do think some are donated by stores who want to support klei koddesh like a previous poster mentioned. The system is unfortunately messed up,

amother

Alyssum

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 9:47 pm

amother Linen wrote:

I have gotten from Tomchei Shabbos in the past
Matza
Chicken
4 roasts+ chopped meat+ beef cubes
Potatoes
Onions apples oranges
Grape juice
Apple juice
Seltzer
Case wine
Box of snack bags
Box of lady fingers
Case of leben
Case of yogurt
Salmon and gefilte fish
Sliced and shredded cheese
3 boxes of assorted spices, groceries, snacks
Assorted cases of pans, plates, bowls, cups, etc.

Don't get me wrong. I appreciated it immensely and thank them.
But that's nowhere near bare basics. And we made a tiny bit more and got removed from that list

I thought you said they refused you because you weren't in kollel?

amother

Tulip

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 9:53 pm

amother Bone wrote:

If you were scared of getting stuck in the “benefits trap”, why wouldn’t you just take the government programs that you were eligible for and set aside the money you would have spent on those benefits? This way you don’t feel like you’re getting stuck relying on certain benefits but you also have a nice savings amount when your income actually does go up. Turning down low-income government programs simply so that you don’t have to wean yourself off them honestly just sounds like a poor financial decision to me.

amother

Linen

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 9:53 pm

amother Alyssum wrote:

I thought you said they refused you because you weren't in kollel?

I got it one year, emergency situation.
The next year, our financial situation hadn't resolved, but the emergency was past.
We asked them again and they refused because we weren't in kollel or desparate "enough".

amother

Bone

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:07 pm

amother Tulip wrote:

It’s like taking out 0% apr credit cards and putting the free float in safe investments. Or maxing out student loans while in school and putting the interest free money in a CD. Most people I know who did this ended up stuck in an interest accumulating debt cycle. It’s very hard to have the discipline to keep the funds segregated and not look at it as available funds. It’s just too risky, and looking at others around us we definitely made the right decision.

amother

Tulip

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:12 pm

amother Bone wrote:

But borrowing money that is subject to interest or that needs to be paid back is not the same as taking free money (benefits). There is no risk attached.

You’re saying that it’s better not to take the free benefits because you won’t be disciplined enough to put aside the same amount into savings. You’d rather be forced to spend your own money on those benefits.

Even if it’s true that you wouldn’t be disciplined enough, that is far far from the ideal financial situation and definitely not something you should be recommending to people. It’s a last resort for people who are not financially disciplined. But objectively it’s a poor financial decision.

amother

Rose

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:15 pm

amother Tulip wrote:

It's not just that.

It's not wanting to have an incentive not to make more.

If you know that switching to a different job is going to mean losing your food stamps, meaning a net loss for now, how easy will it be to make that switch?

But long term, it's worthwhile. So temporarily living without the benefits now means you'll be making much better decisions.

amother

Bone

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:17 pm

amother Tulip wrote:

Aside from the psychological factor of not wanting to lose that lump sum by advancing one’s career, the money becomes part of your general budget and spending even if you segregate it. There’s a wealth factor that leads people to spend more. Then they are trapped in program purgatory when they need to increase their income stream. Find me someone who was disciplined enough to successfully pull this off in the real world.

amother

Royalblue

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:18 pm

amother Tulip wrote:

Not necessarily. It’s a mindset that allows you to grow much faster , depending on your self completely.

I’d love to recommend the book ‘rich dad poor dad’
Often enough if we broaden our thoughts to think in bigger less restrictive ways we make more financially smart choices

amother

Tulip

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:22 pm

amother Rose wrote:

You’re agreeing that switching to a higher salary is worthwhile even if it means losing benefits. Which means you would make the smart decision to take the higher salary even if it means you lose benefits and you’re in a tough income bracket temporarily. Someone who wouldn’t take the salary raise so as not to lose the benefits is making a bad financial decision.

Someone who can make rational financial decisions would take the food stamps when they can and then also take the raise when they can.

So again, turning down benefits you are eligible for is only a good idea if you are not financially disciplined or can’t make rational financial decisions. It may be a necessity for some but it’s certainly not an ideal or something to recommend, and I also don’t think it’s something to be proud of.

amother

Tulip

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:26 pm

amother Bone wrote:

Me, I “pulled it off”, along with many people I know. When I was low income due to having young kids and a husband who was in school, I gladly took Medicaid, food stamps, and WIC. Why wouldn’t I rightfully and legally take free benefits? I had paid enough money in taxes in the previous years that I felt no guilt. When our income went up we reported our income changes and were taken off (we actually got 4 years of free Medicaid due to not being kicked off due to Covid! Lucky us!) it was a great financial move for us. We were able to save so much money that would have otherwise been spent on groceries and health insurance. Many of my friends did the same.

amother

Rose

Wed, Apr 03 2024, 10:26 pm

amother Tulip wrote:

I'm a big talker.

You don't know how long you'll be stuck in that no-mans-land of making just too much for food stamps (maybe forever), and in the meantime your family is unhappy with the cheaper food. I don't know if I'd make the right decision.

Not having to decide at all gives you the freedom to grow financially without that pull. It gets you used to living with exactly what you make and no more.

Theoretically it might be smarter to do things differently, but humans are humans. There's a reason why most people do the debt snowball method instead of paying off the highest interest card first. There's a reason why birth control lists effectiveness with normal use, not only with theoretical perfect people.