Can we have a closed forum for kollel wives?

PinkandYellow

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 6:54 am

there seems to be some confusion here. some ppl are getting the impression that the kollel wives want a closed forum because we are better, either spiritually or monetarily, or because we do more, or because we stam want to lord it over all the lowly women of working men. somehow, you all seem to think that different is better. actually, different is just that, different. not better, not worse, not comparable, but different. no one is making cheshbonos and no one thinks they are holier. we just want a place where we can discuss our issues without getting bashed, for example, the way we are getting knocked down on this very thread we are in right now. life in israel and yeshivish/litvish forums do have many kollel wives on them but also many not.
I'm a kollel wife, I live in israel, I'm litvish/yeshivish. so these things aren't mutually exclusive but they are different.
and if you can't shake that feeling that (some of) us kollel wives are elitist, I think its time for you to do a cheshbon hanefesh.
and thank you for deciding that there will be in fighting in a closed kollel wife forum between different sects, but we'll handle that specific problem ourselves, if it comes up, which I doubt it will.

Quote:

Would you consider the Rebbetzin of the Chofetz Chaim not part of this group? After all, the Chofetz Chaim worked just enough to make parnassa... and if I am not mistaken she didn't work.

if the chofetz chaim wasn't in kollel, his wife wouldn't be allowed on the forum. the point is that this has nothing to do with good, better, best at all, it has to do with different ppl with different lifestyles, lifestyle choices and needs.

in terms of criteria- I think the wife of a man learning two full sedarim a day in a yeshiva/kollel/beis midrash setting sounds accurate.

shalhevet

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 6:56 am

creativemommyto3 wrote:

Aidelmom wrote:

creative, why are you turning this into a debate about kollel? Life has its challenges for many people for various reasons. Its not about which one is more difficult. Its about making a forum for a group of people in a specific situation..

When I wrote why not have the forum like the natural parenting section, I was just throwing out an idea. I haven't clarified to myself yet whether I think a closed forum would be better.

About all the closed forums, I would love to get a peek at the way diff people live, theres something to learn from everyone, but I understand Shalhevets point about the purpose of closed forums.

I am just debating her criteria for admittance to the forum... she is giving over the impression that b/c she is the main breadwinner and her dh brings in little or no income from kollel that it's different than what other women are doing for the sake of Torah learning.

Yes, she thinks it's different.

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I think that this is different than the forums for Lub/chassidish/litvish/modern... there are soo many grey areas here.

Actually, I think there are a lot less grey areas than many other forums.

Quote:

I think a forum like this is just off. Would you consider the Rebbetzin of the Chofetz Chaim not part of this group? After all, the Chofetz Chaim worked just enough to make parnassa... and if I am not mistaken she didn't work.

She ran a store all week, and once a week the CC would come in to do the accounts.

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This just bothers me b/c I am not seeing what needs to be closed here... I think all that is needed is some discipline here.

Davka, every time you have posted on this thread it has emphasized why it needs to be closed.

Quote:

but if you do have a closed forum.. it should be separate kollel forums for each sect... u don't think that there will be bashing in between yeshivish and DL kollel wives, or yeshivish and chabad kollel wives? or MO and yeshivish kollel wives?

Not at all. Like every closed forum, it will be to discuss all that unites us.

Quote:

To me this closed forum seems elitist and smells of the fact that many kollel families think that they are better than those not in full time kollel.

I think you are the one who thinks not being in kolel is not as good, which leads you to attack the kolel way of life again and again. Actually, I think it is fine that someone is working and is kove'a itim and I am sure you will have great sachar for all that you are sacrificing so that your husband can learn.

Quote:

Also, is it going to be for those whose dh will only be in kollel for 5 years or permanently?

I don't know what will be decided, but I would be in favour of anyone whose husband is in kolel now, regardless of what their future plans are.

Aidelmom

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 6:56 am

pink and yellow

PinkandYellow

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 7:04 am

Quote:

This just bothers me b/c I am not seeing what needs to be closed here... I think all that is needed is some discipline here.

maybe. but its obvious that many ppl that have posted on this thread alone don't have that discipline. so then we can agree to have a closed forum until ppl like you stop posting negatively about us kollel folk and then we will open our forum to everyone (and live happily ever after). and btw, its not just what you post its what you think as well. so even if you were to develop the self-control necessary not to write badly or deragatorily about others, it wouldn't be sufficient. as long as I have a chashash that there are people like you (royal you) out there, thinking the way you've been writing, I can't see how we can not have a closed forum. you might be machshiv torah but you aren't machshiv kollel.

amother

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 7:12 am

PinkandYellow

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 7:23 am

Quote:

Again I ask, why do kollel wives think that they should be immune to being bashed. I've posted on other forums, and guess what- I've been bashed by KOLLEL WIVES !!!! So if you don't like it done to you, don't do it to others!!!

the problem is when a thread is taken over by bashing, explanations, and defenses. to the point where even if the op gets the answer she was looking for, it could be without support and understanding, besides for being hard to come by, around and behind all that criticism.

creativemommyto3

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 7:26 am

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amother

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 7:28 am

creativemommyto3

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 7:34 am

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creativemommyto3

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 7:37 am

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Seraph

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 7:52 am

this forum wouldnt be relevant to me, but something I thought of- two sedarim in kollel as a criteria may not be the best description. like my fil for example for years was in kollel till 1 pm, then worked in the afternoons and evenings. there are kollels like that that may not be a full day. the kollel only is until 1 pm, so that balebatim could also be in kollel...
just something to think about. but since this thread is irrelevant to me, I'm backing out of it now after making my suggestion.

creativemommyto3

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 7:59 am

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Tamiri

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 8:03 am

So tell me, what is the difference between a wife working so her DH can go to kollel, and a wife working so her husband can go to school?

creativemommyto3

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 8:56 am

I am deleting all of my post on this thread b/c I think that the only person capable of answering my innocent questions is my rebbetzin.... only she truly knows how serious of a person I am and how machshiv kollel I am..

I also decided that bli neder I am going to stay far away from anything on this site other than tips and recipes because some ppl here just don't want to hear anything other than what they want to hear.

Chani

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 9:03 am

It is disingenuous to say that a closed forum is so that the closed forum members won't be bashed. From what I've seen, the closed forums are used davka to bash those who aren't in the closed forum. That's why I think everything should be open.

Chani

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 9:08 am

I should clarify - not every post is for the sake of bashing others, which is particularly reprehensible in a closed forum, where the ones being bashed don't know and can't defend themselves, but there are plenty of posts and threads with bashing of non-forum groups and members. I'm sure OP started this thread with the purest of intentions. Nonetheless, I have no doubt that that is the way a closed forum will go - just like the others.

creativemommyto3

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 9:13 am

I also think that the closed forums are used to bash other ppl/sects without them being able to defend themselves... that's what I don't like about them.

daisy

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 9:16 am

Crayon210 wrote:

Aidelmom wrote:

Why can't it be like the natural parenting forum? Open, but not for debate about kollel.

I agree.

BTW, if you start a thread and explicitly state that it's for chizuk/not to go off-topic/not to debate, I will do my best to keep it that way. You can always PM me or report posts that don't conform with the OP's request.

It really doesn't seem to work in Natural Parenting.

I agree with the women who want a closed kolel forum, and I would not be a part of it.

amother

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 9:45 am

amother wrote:

Also, I think the kollel wives are being a little paranoid about being bashed. There's bashing on most of the forums, yes, even closed ones! Why do you feel that kollel wives should be the exception? Scratching Head

To me it looks like questions are considered "bashing" especially to these kollel wives. Twisted Evil

happyone

Fri, Aug 22 2008, 10:03 am

I didnt read through the entire thread. But I believe the reason some of us feel there's a need for private forums is the fact that is no respect for other peoples beliefs, ideas, and way of life. If some of us here would learn to "agree to disagree" on certain topics, there would be no need for private, hidden forums. Nothing wrong with controversy -- however, lack of respect and bashing is what turns people away.

I've been a kollel wife, I've been a SAHM, I've worked three jobs at once to pay our expenses, and I've been at the end where both my dh and myself have worked to the bone. It's hard to understand the other side of the coin till you've been there. As life changes, and different needs have to be met, your past dreams and aspirations sometimes need to be put aside.

If you cannot understand the needs and challenges of kollel moms, and don't have respect for their way of living and their sacrificing for Torah, the least you can do is not argue the fact that they have a hidden forum.