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Behavioral issues = pandas?
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amother
Salmon


 

Post Mon, Apr 22 2024, 2:15 pm
[quote="amother OP"]Not strep as far as I know. Just lots of anxiety, separation issues, Crazy tantrums, hot and cold personality, etc.[/quots
Sounds just like my son used to have. He bh healed his pandas but I would suggest seeing a good pediatrician and explaining the symptoms. They should do bloodwork and find what's wrong
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amother
OP


 

Post Mon, Apr 22 2024, 2:26 pm
Thank you. We’ll see what the pediatrician says. Hope they don’t think I’m crazy or pushing things in my kid. I just want to be able to help her and make sure we’re covering all our bases.
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amother
Salmon


 

Post Mon, Apr 22 2024, 2:36 pm
amother OP wrote:
Thank you. We’ll see what the pediatrician says. Hope they don’t think I’m crazy or pushing things in my kid. I just want to be able to help her and make sure we’re covering all our bases.


Don't worry what they think. A mother knows best!! Go root for ur kid. Good luck!
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amother
Goldenrod


 

Post Mon, Apr 22 2024, 2:46 pm
My 9 yo has been acting extremely moody lately. And picking fights with everyone. She can be a stinker and instigate. But she's not one to randomly pick a fight. It shut the door in someones face. She's a real sweetheart always having everyone in mind. Making sure to include the other kids....
It was so intense I sent her to fun school just so everyone could get a break from her. I got to talking with my neighbor on shabbos that sons kids really have a hard time with the prepesach schedule. She tells me her daughter acting crazy clingy and cranky and ended testing positive for strep. So I took my kid to the doctor on Sunday. Her throat looked perfectly clear. Rapid was negative. Today they call me, the overnight is positive!
I first gave her motrin then waited for the abx to arrive.
For some reason I hadn't thought that.
Because my other kid had pans from a tick borne disease. He main symptom was emotional liability. Then after begging miltiple doctors to do bloodwork out help me out cuz my kid is 5 and I know her well enough to know this isn't her, she developed neurological symptoms. And THEN finally one doctor agreed to test.

My child with PANS also was intense. And sensory and emotionally dysregulated. But she wasn't like that a a baby. She was actually an angel baby! It started around toddlerhood. But with ot she was doing amazingly then bam regress. Grow, grow, grow, learn. Then bam. She's eating her clothes again. She's craving sugar with insane intensity. She's peeing herself. She's crying for everything. She's throwing her food....
Then she learned to communicate appropriately again. She stop eating her clothes. She stop peeing herself.
Bam. Now she's losing her bowels. Now she's seeking input so badly thar she does weird things in the street.

And I can all trace it back to one time she was sick and out of playgroup for 4 weeks. "Unexplained prolonged virus"
Until she was dehydrated and needed hospitalization for fluid.


I've had enough experience and seen enough to tell you, please don't just go for a diagnosis and throw therapies at her.
Do that too! Because healing is a multi pronged approach.

I hope there aren't too many typos. I'm toying quickly on a swipe keyboard. Gotta go
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amother
Moonstone


 

Post Mon, Apr 22 2024, 2:50 pm
OT is definitely the right track and don't give up too much on the process. I went through so many therapists before we found the right one and they are across the country! My child's OTs are exceptional and top in the field. They addressed her root issues and our lives have changed dramatically. They spoke on this topic too.

Here's the link: https://open.spotify.com/episo.....c4a51 Good luck.
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amother
Holly


 

Post Mon, Apr 22 2024, 3:20 pm
amother Moonstone wrote:
OT is definitely the right track and don't give up too much on the process. I went through so many therapists before we found the right one and they are across the country! My child's OTs are exceptional and top in the field. They addressed her root issues and our lives have changed dramatically. They spoke on this topic too.

Here's the link: https://open.spotify.com/episo.....c4a51 Good luck.
How does an OT address the root causes of pandas?
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amother
Moonstone


 

Post Mon, Apr 22 2024, 3:38 pm
amother Holly wrote:
How does an OT address the root causes of pandas?


From what I understand, pandas is an inflammatory response to the infection that triggers the nervous system. In identifying the physiological makeup of the child, they can help regulate their systems, reflexes and chemical responses. It’s not a cure but a way to alleviate symptoms triggered. They actually won’t treat when pandas is active.
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rose613




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 22 2024, 3:53 pm
I could have written your post OP. Have a child with high sensory needs and emotional lability and couldn’t put my finger on it for a few years. I felt like something was different. Noticed extreme flare post illness last year and strep titers were off the charts. Now we are assuming it’s mild pans/pandas - and trying to treat at best we can, but because not severe I have not been able to get more then 2 weeks of abx at a time. Like you, I thought pandas had to be this crazy type of behavior, but there is a spectrum. Hatzlacha to you.
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amother
Obsidian


 

Post Mon, Apr 22 2024, 4:06 pm
This site loves to jump to pandas which is an extremely rare condition. These symptoms can also be explained by ASD, ADHD, and many other conditions. Six is not too young to get tested. OT can help with sensory issues and help with regulation but it’s not magic.
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amother
Lemonchiffon


 

Post Wed, Apr 24 2024, 4:11 am
amother Obsidian wrote:
This site loves to jump to pandas which is an extremely rare condition. These symptoms can also be explained by ASD, ADHD, and many other conditions. Six is not too young to get tested. OT can help with sensory issues and help with regulation but it’s not magic.


Yes, making me nervous!!! I have a son with ASD. He has had strep, but he's been different since he was a toddler. Nothing was so sudden. Although, he does regress here and there, but he progresses too.
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amother
Holly


 

Post Wed, Apr 24 2024, 10:30 pm
amother Obsidian wrote:
This site loves to jump to pandas which is an extremely rare condition. These symptoms can also be explained by ASD, ADHD, and many other conditions. Six is not too young to get tested. OT can help with sensory issues and help with regulation but it’s not magic.
Pandas isn't rare. Asd and adhd don't explain anything, they are just a grouping of symptoms, not a cause. Pandas can cause the symptoms of asd, adhd, gad, ocd, ODD etc.
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amother
Lemonchiffon


 

Post Thu, Apr 25 2024, 4:18 am
amother Holly wrote:
Pandas isn't rare. Asd and adhd don't explain anything, they are just a grouping of symptoms, not a cause. Pandas can cause the symptoms of asd, adhd, gad, ocd, ODD etc.


Right. But DH and I both have ASD. Doesn't sound strange to me that our son would also have. Genetically he has a high chance. I didn't have strep ever until I was 18.
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amother
Holly


 

Post Thu, May 02 2024, 8:19 am
amother Lemonchiffon wrote:
Right. But DH and I both have ASD. Doesn't sound strange to me that our son would also have. Genetically he has a high chance. I didn't have strep ever until I was 18.
Even if there is a strong genetic predisposition, there are still things in the environment that are pulling the trigger. Those things can be addressed to potentially turn off those genes.
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amother
Eggplant


 

Post Thu, May 02 2024, 8:29 am
amother Holly wrote:
Pandas isn't rare. Asd and adhd don't explain anything, they are just a grouping of symptoms, not a cause. Pandas can cause the symptoms of asd, adhd, gad, ocd, ODD etc.


Pandas is rare. Just because many label their own kids doesn’t make it actually true. Asd, adhd ocd etc are real. It’s incredibly rude and crossing a line to decide you can just throw out such statements when you have zero qualifications to do so. I know many kids that suffered until they started therapy for asd and adhd. Just because you know your child does not mean you get to make blanket statements about all kids. And no the research on 10 kids does not prove that asd and adhd are not real and the actual cause of behaviors. Most kids who are diagnosed with asd and adhd do not have pandas or brain inflammation.
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amother
Holly


 

Post Thu, May 02 2024, 8:33 am
amother Eggplant wrote:
Pandas is rare. Just because many label their own kids doesn’t make it actually true. Asd, adhd ocd etc are real. It’s incredibly rude and crossing a line to decide you can just throw out such statements when you have zero qualifications to do so. I know many kids that suffered until they started therapy for asd and adhd. Just because you know your child does not mean you get to make blanket statements about all kids. And no the research on 10 kids does not prove that asd and adhd are not real and the actual cause of behaviors. Most kids who are diagnosed with asd and adhd do not have pandas or brain inflammation.
Of course they're real! And also, inflammation plays a large role in their pathophysiology. Pubmed is loaded with peer reviewed articles discussing this. Below is just one example for each.

https://karger.com/nim/article.....ntion

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p.....9423/
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amother
Eggplant


 

Post Thu, May 02 2024, 8:39 am
amother Holly wrote:
Of course they're real! And also, inflammation plays a large role in their pathophysiology. Pubmed is loaded with peer reviewed articles discussing this. Below is just one example for each.

https://karger.com/nim/article.....ntion

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p.....9423/



Just because it might be the issue in SOME kids doesn’t mean you can now make the incorrect statement that asd and adhd are symptoms and just brain inflammation. No they are not. And not all kids have brain inflammation. And sometimes kids are just difficult personalities and there is nothing “wrong” with them. There are still many different reasons a child has difficult behaviors. Trauma is also one of them. It’s just ignorant to use these peer reviewed studies to now make these claims.
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amother
Holly


 

Post Thu, May 02 2024, 8:41 am
amother Eggplant wrote:
Just because it might be the issue in SOME kids doesn’t mean you can now make the incorrect statement that asd and adhd are symptoms and just brain inflammation. No they are not. And not all kids have brain inflammation. And sometimes kids are just difficult personalities and there is nothing “wrong” with them. There are still many different reasons a child has difficult behaviors. Trauma is also one of them. It’s just ignorant to use these peer reviewed studies to now make these claims.
Peer reviewed studies show that many many kids with asd and adhd have high levels of inflammation. Moreover, many studies discuss in depth how inflammation affects the nervous system to produce the symptoms that show up as asd and adhd. There is nothing ignorant about this statement. There are also other factors in the development of asd and adhd.

And yes, there are many different reasons for difficult behavior in children, but asd and adhd isn't a reason, it's just a rewording. Why is my child difficult? Because he has difficulty focusing, is impulsive, hyperactive, and emotionally dysregulated. Okay, but you just described their difficulties in more detail, but that's still not a cause. Tacking on the word "disorder" at the end still doesn't make it a cause or a reason. If you want to tell me they presumably have a dopamine dystegulation disorder, which is the presumed hypothetical neurochemical cause for adhd, we can talk. But a) it's not like anyone's testing for that, so it would really just be a guess and b) there would still be a cause behind the dopamine issues beyond just genetics.
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amother
OP


 

Post Thu, May 02 2024, 8:49 am
Doctor thinks probably stemming from anxiety and no need to test for pandas. I actually saw a much better version of the child during pesach break. I’d think I’d actually pandas then behavior wouldn’t change like that
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amother
Holly


 

Post Thu, May 02 2024, 8:51 am
amother OP wrote:
Doctor thinks probably stemming from anxiety and no need to test for pandas. I actually saw a much better version of the child during pesach break. I’d think I’d actually pandas then behavior wouldn’t change like that
Anxiety is a symptom, not a cause. Glad your child is doing better though Smile
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Ruchel




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 02 2024, 9:01 am
What's pandas??
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