Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Parenting our children
Can someone explain CIO?



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother
OP


 

Post Thu, May 23 2024, 11:32 am
Is it only in regard to sleep training? Or is it the idea that the baby should never cry for a second? Is it only when the baby is crying in bed or also if baby is crying while you’re holding him/her? If you let the baby cry for 5-10 minutes and then pick him/her up, is that counted as CIO?

I’ve never known this as an official method so I’m curious what the parameters are
Back to top

amother
Zinnia


 

Post Thu, May 23 2024, 11:40 am
Officially it’s leaving the baby to cry to learn to sleep.

But on here people think any type of crying is cio and abusive. People are extreme and ridiculous and it’s not possible to never have a kid cry nor is there any proof that short crying while they see or hear you is a problem.
Back to top

miami85




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 23 2024, 11:46 am
This is not coming from any official capacity but here is my take on it based on my experience as an aunt from a young age, babysitter, and mother of 6. I was never able to do it in the methodical "Ferber" method of incremental crying/checking--to me that was a tease to the baby.

To me if you have triaged your baby's needs past 4 months old and you know for a fact that baby is not hungry, dirty/wet, in pain (teething/gas) and that based on behavior/schedule etc. the baby should be ready for sleep if they cry for a few minutes--shouldn't be more than 10 and the cry should be a steady/moaning cry, not sharp or intensifying cry, then it will not do long term damage.

I had one child who had a solid bedtime routine of waving goodnight to everyone, she would say "night-night" to herself in the mirror. When she could walk she would even walk to her crib willingly at bedtime. But as soon as I put her in she would cry almost every time--it was like an unwinding catharsis of having to end the day and separate from mommy and fun. She was a pretty happy baby/toddler the rest of the day.

If baby is still crying after 15-20 minutes (it feels like a long time, I can't say its a firm number) or standing or anything doesn't seem "right" then I would check the diaper, think if teething is an issue and give tylenol as appropriate. Sometimes I would reevaluate that maybe baby just isn't ready for bed and give them another 30-60 mins before trying again.
Back to top

watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 23 2024, 12:00 pm
Posting under my own name because I am not ashamed. I don't think CIO is a good idea, I don't thnk it should be a default or be done lightly. I did it under the supervision of our doctor and I have no regrets.

Shaken baby syndrome is a very real thing and if anyone feels they are chas v'shalom going to get near that point, all parenting ideals need to be thrown out the window and professional help needs to come in. That's what I did.

I did CIO with my oldest who is now an adult. It was a literal matter of life and death for the baby sadly, as I had PP anxiety, an abusive ex, and one day I tossed baby into their crib so hard, baby literally bounced. The baby was 5 months old. I shut the door, called my ex (then husband) to come home from work, and then I called my obgyn and said I needed help, he was a malach and set me up with a therapist and psychiatrist that day. The ped told me to let the baby CIO, because my ex would not help at night or really ever, and I was in no shape to care for the baby at night until I got regulated, and at 5 months, the baby was old enough to sleep. So it took 2 nights, first night the baby cried for 45 mins (I was in the shower the whole time also crying, ex was in bed with headphones on but it didn't bother him at all and this was WAY before noise cancelling head phones). Second night the baby cried for 10 minutes. Third night baby slept. I got the help I needed and was a better mom BH. baby is alive today BH because I did this. I had no choice.

I never imagined I would let a baby CIO and I did not let my next kids CIO but BH I was remarried by then and he did more than his share.

I will say this - my ex in laws did not believe in holding a crying baby. My ex grew up with the saying, if the baby is crying while I am holding it, and crying when I am not holding it, I wont hold it. And they did not believe in walking the halls with a crying baby to sooth it or really anything else. It was all on me, often while being told "you are doing this to yourself" and "I don't want to hear you say you're tired, you did this to yourself". It was a hard time.

****************************

True CIO should only take a few days and the baby wont cry all night. They tend to fall asleep at the 45 min. mark from what I've read and heard anecdotally.
Back to top

peace2




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 23 2024, 12:04 pm
Watergirl coming under my screen name to say this. I am often impressed by your balanced perspectives in your posts and this one took real guts to post especially on this site. Kol hakavod to you!
Back to top

watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 23 2024, 12:07 pm
peace2 wrote:
Watergirl coming under my screen name to say this. I am often impressed by your balanced perspectives in your posts and this one took real guts to post especially on this site. Kol hakavod to you!

Thank you so much, that means a lot!!
Back to top

TR91




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 23 2024, 2:53 pm
watergirl wrote:
Posting under my own name because I am not ashamed. I don't think CIO is a good idea, I don't thnk it should be a default or be done lightly. I did it under the supervision of our doctor and I have no regrets.

Shaken baby syndrome is a very real thing and if anyone feels they are chas v'shalom going to get near that point, all parenting ideals need to be thrown out the window and professional help needs to come in. That's what I did.

I did CIO with my oldest who is now an adult. It was a literal matter of life and death for the baby sadly, as I had PP anxiety, an abusive ex, and one day I tossed baby into their crib so hard, baby literally bounced. The baby was 5 months old. I shut the door, called my ex (then husband) to come home from work, and then I called my obgyn and said I needed help, he was a malach and set me up with a therapist and psychiatrist that day. The ped told me to let the baby CIO, because my ex would not help at night or really ever, and I was in no shape to care for the baby at night until I got regulated, and at 5 months, the baby was old enough to sleep. So it took 2 nights, first night the baby cried for 45 mins (I was in the shower the whole time also crying, ex was in bed with headphones on but it didn't bother him at all and this was WAY before noise cancelling head phones). Second night the baby cried for 10 minutes. Third night baby slept. I got the help I needed and was a better mom BH. baby is alive today BH because I did this. I had no choice.

I never imagined I would let a baby CIO and I did not let my next kids CIO but BH I was remarried by then and he did more than his share.

I will say this - my ex in laws did not believe in holding a crying baby. My ex grew up with the saying, if the baby is crying while I am holding it, and crying when I am not holding it, I wont hold it. And they did not believe in walking the halls with a crying baby to sooth it or really anything else. It was all on me, often while being told "you are doing this to yourself" and "I don't want to hear you say you're tired, you did this to yourself". It was a hard time.

****************************

True CIO should only take a few days and the baby wont cry all night. They tend to fall asleep at the 45 min. mark from what I've read and heard anecdotally.


I'm inspired by you using your screen name. And of course it makes your message a lot stronger. Thank you for sharing your story.

(And I know it's been so many years, but I'm still sorry for what you went through and glad you were strong and brave to get help.)
Back to top

amother
Seagreen


 

Post Thu, May 23 2024, 3:05 pm
watergirl wrote:
Posting under my own name because I am not ashamed. I don't think CIO is a good idea, I don't thnk it should be a default or be done lightly. I did it under the supervision of our doctor and I have no regrets.

Shaken baby syndrome is a very real thing and if anyone feels they are chas v'shalom going to get near that point, all parenting ideals need to be thrown out the window and professional help needs to come in. That's what I did.

I did CIO with my oldest who is now an adult. It was a literal matter of life and death for the baby sadly, as I had PP anxiety, an abusive ex, and one day I tossed baby into their crib so hard, baby literally bounced. The baby was 5 months old. I shut the door, called my ex (then husband) to come home from work, and then I called my obgyn and said I needed help, he was a malach and set me up with a therapist and psychiatrist that day. The ped told me to let the baby CIO, because my ex would not help at night or really ever, and I was in no shape to care for the baby at night until I got regulated, and at 5 months, the baby was old enough to sleep. So it took 2 nights, first night the baby cried for 45 mins (I was in the shower the whole time also crying, ex was in bed with headphones on but it didn't bother him at all and this was WAY before noise cancelling head phones). Second night the baby cried for 10 minutes. Third night baby slept. I got the help I needed and was a better mom BH. baby is alive today BH because I did this. I had no choice.

I never imagined I would let a baby CIO and I did not let my next kids CIO but BH I was remarried by then and he did more than his share.

I will say this - my ex in laws did not believe in holding a crying baby. My ex grew up with the saying, if the baby is crying while I am holding it, and crying when I am not holding it, I wont hold it. And they did not believe in walking the halls with a crying baby to sooth it or really anything else. It was all on me, often while being told "you are doing this to yourself" and "I don't want to hear you say you're tired, you did this to yourself". It was a hard time.

****************************

True CIO should only take a few days and the baby wont cry all night. They tend to fall asleep at the 45 min. mark from what I've read and heard anecdotally.

I agree. I guess Hashem took pity on babies that don’t have someone available emotionally or physically to take care of them and the crying stops eventually. But it’s not the first choice. Depends on the temperament of the baby some babies trauma is major and some are just tesign to it easy because they are easygoing and mellow. And it never just one time because when the baby is sick and you hold him you need to do it again and other life events that disturb the routine. Chazal said that a woman that lets her baby cry will pay for it. Of course if you did it because you were persuaded that it’s good for the baby you are שוגג. It’s a big job to take care of a baby at night. That’s why people used to live with their extended family girls didn’t go to school and were available to help 24/7. It’s very different and I know it’s very difficult but still…
Back to top

watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 23 2024, 3:18 pm
amother Seagreen wrote:
I agree. I guess Hashem took pity on babies that don’t have someone available emotionally or physically to take care of them and the crying stops eventually. But it’s not the first choice. Depends on the temperament of the baby some babies trauma is major and some are just tesign to it easy because they are easygoing and mellow. And it never just one time because when the baby is sick and you hold him you need to do it again and other life events that disturb the routine. Chazal said that a woman that lets her baby cry will pay for it. Of course if you did it because you were persuaded that it’s good for the baby you are שוגג. It’s a big job to take care of a baby at night. That’s why people used to live with their extended family girls didn’t go to school and were available to help 24/7. It’s very different and nor it’s very difficult but still…

I’m not sure what you were trying to accomplish with this post, but I promise you it didn’t happen. Unless you were trying to make me feel bad.

Regarding the bold, I was not persuaded, I knew I had to do it because the situation as is was life or death. And yes it was one time. Two nights.

Re: your chazal - that was cruel.

Chasdei Hashem you don’t know what it’s like to have postpartum illness with a family that wants you to abuse your child daily by letting her cry laying on a blanket on the floor, and then telling you that you’re stupid for wanting to hold her sooth her. Zero support.

I was brave enough to post under my username because I had nothing to hide. How about you?

I’ve been on this website very long time and I’ve developed a pretty thick skin, but this post is really affecting me so I’m going to sign off for a little bit.
Back to top

amother
Seagreen


 

Post Thu, May 23 2024, 3:21 pm
watergirl wrote:
I’m not sure what you were trying to accomplish with this post, but I promise you it didn’t happen. Unless you were trying to make me feel bad.

Regarding the bold, I was not persuaded, I knew I had to do it because the situation as is was life or death. And yes it was one time. Two nights.

Re: your chazal - that was cruel.

Chasdei Hashem you don’t know what it’s like to have postpartum illness with a family that wants you to abuse your child daily by letting her cry laying on a blanket on the floor, and then telling you that you’re stupid for wanting to hold her sooth her. Zero support.

I was brave enough to post under my username because I had nothing to hide. How about you?

I’ve been on this website very long time and I’ve developed a pretty thick skin, but this post is really affecting me so I’m going to sign off for a little bit.

I’m sorry very very very much. I didn’t mean to make you feel bad. I think your situation was the best choice available and you are very smart a
Nd brave and you saved your family. Please forgive me and I really mean what I wrote now not just to make you feel better
Back to top

shanarishona




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 23 2024, 3:30 pm
Water girl, there’s no question you did the right thing for your baby.
In fact, it’s amazing how much good you did for your baby in such a difficult situation.
Back to top

ittsamother




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 23 2024, 3:36 pm
amother Seagreen wrote:
I agree. I guess Hashem took pity on babies that don’t have someone available emotionally or physically to take care of them and the crying stops eventually. But it’s not the first choice. Depends on the temperament of the baby some babies trauma is major and some are just tesign to it easy because they are easygoing and mellow. And it never just one time because when the baby is sick and you hold him you need to do it again and other life events that disturb the routine. Chazal said that a woman that lets her baby cry will pay for it. Of course if you did it because you were persuaded that it’s good for the baby you are שוגג. It’s a big job to take care of a baby at night. That’s why people used to live with their extended family girls didn’t go to school and were available to help 24/7. It’s very different and I know it’s very difficult but still…


Wow the sheer amount of judgement pouring thru this post. I will follow Watergirl's lead and post under my screen name because I am not ashamed either. And I don't have any rough story like Watergirl did- just a normal loving family and normal yummy kids, and a busy work-life balance that needed a sane woman around. I sleep trained each of my kids, yes there was crying but minimal in the scheme of things, and by the 3rd night each time, they were peacefully going to sleep.

I went thru their bedtime routine, cuddled them, put them in, and left the room. After 5 minutes of crying, I came back in, shushed and patted them, and left again, and repeated as often as necessary until it was just a low kvetch, and usually at that point they were asleep within the next few minutes. I believe, as Watergirl said, it was abt 45 min the first night, 20 the next, and no time the 3rd.

I 100% do not think this was detrimental to my kids at all in any way, I plan to do it with any future kids, and I think I did my babies -and the family- a huge favor by helping them get into an easy routine where they could smoothly drop off into sleep, and soothe themselves quickly back to sleep when they woke in the middle of the night. There have been so many times where I've heard one of my babies give 1 little kvetch randomly at 12:30 or so and then quiet. (Of course if there's more substantial crying than that we go in to check it out and take care of the situation.)

Making mothers feel like they're monsters or emotionally unavailable if they dare let their babies cry for any amount of time is cruel and nasty.
Back to top

amother
Poppy


 

Post Thu, May 23 2024, 3:55 pm
ittsamother wrote:
I sleep trained each of my kids, yes there was crying but minimal in the scheme of things, and by the 3rd night each time, they were peacefully going to sleep.

I went thru their bedtime routine, cuddled them, put them in, and left the room. After 5 minutes of crying, I came back in, shushed and patted them, and left again, and repeated as often as necessary until it was just a low kvetch, and usually at that point they were asleep within the next few minutes. I believe, as Watergirl said, it was abt 45 min the first night, 20 the next, and no time the 3rd.

I 100% do not think this was detrimental to my kids at all in any way, I plan to do it with any future kids, and I think I did my babies -and the family- a huge favor by helping them get into an easy routine where they could smoothly drop off into sleep, and soothe themselves quickly back to sleep when they woke in the middle of the night. There have been so many times where I've heard one of my babies give 1 little kvetch randomly at 12:30 or so and then quiet. (Of course if there's more substantial crying than that we go in to check it out and take care of the situation.)

Making mothers feel like they're monsters or emotionally unavailable if they dare let their babies cry for any amount of time is cruel and nasty.


Same here. My kids need to be “taught” what it feels like to be tired, and when you feel tired, you go to sleep. Some kids fall asleep easier than other, and some kids are bigger fighters. I do what is necessary to keep myself sane.
Back to top

amother
Cappuccino


 

Post Thu, May 23 2024, 4:47 pm
Watergirl, you are a hero and your situation was very unusual. You are a strong mama in a horrible situation and you did your best.

For all the other posters, CIO is cruel. It’s not a cathartic release for the baby. That’s just your way of making yourself feel better.

Leaving a baby on their own in their crib to fall asleep is cruel. Babies cortisol levels sky rocket and research shows that their cortisol levels sky rocket on the night that they stop crying as well.

They are still in tremendous distress but they know there will be no one to come save them.

So when you think you were successful you’re not seeing the full picture and the distress the baby suffered through even when you think all is fine.

There are so many better ways. Get the book No Cry Sleep Solution and help them sleep gently or co sleep and nurse and go into them.
Back to top

amother
Jade


 

Post Thu, May 23 2024, 5:14 pm
amother Cappuccino wrote:
Watergirl, you are a hero and your situation was very unusual. You are a strong mama in a horrible situation and you did your best.

For all the other posters, CIO is cruel. It’s not a cathartic release for the baby. That’s just your way of making yourself feel better.

Leaving a baby on their own in their crib to fall asleep is cruel. Babies cortisol levels sky rocket and research shows that their cortisol levels sky rocket on the night that they stop crying as well.

They are still in tremendous distress but they know there will be no one to come save them.

So when you think you were successful you’re not seeing the full picture and the distress the baby suffered through even when you think all is fine.

There are so many better ways. Get the book No Cry Sleep Solution and help them sleep gently or co sleep and nurse and go into them.

Then explain to me why when I put my baby in his crib I could see on the monitor that he laid there happily sucking on his fingers for a bit before falling asleep if he’s in such distress
Back to top

giftedmom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 23 2024, 5:20 pm
amother Cappuccino wrote:
Watergirl, you are a hero and your situation was very unusual. You are a strong mama in a horrible situation and you did your best.

For all the other posters, CIO is cruel. It’s not a cathartic release for the baby. That’s just your way of making yourself feel better.

Leaving a baby on their own in their crib to fall asleep is cruel. Babies cortisol levels sky rocket and research shows that their cortisol levels sky rocket on the night that they stop crying as well.

They are still in tremendous distress but they know there will be no one to come save them.

So when you think you were successful you’re not seeing the full picture and the distress the baby suffered through even when you think all is fine.

There are so many better ways. Get the book No Cry Sleep Solution and help them sleep gently or co sleep and nurse and go into them.

If they’re not crying to begin with then they’re not in distress
Back to top

amother
Burlywood


 

Post Thu, May 23 2024, 5:20 pm
amother Jade wrote:
Then explain to me why when I put my baby in his crib I could see on the monitor that he laid there happily sucking on his fingers for a bit before falling asleep if he’s in such distress


You have an easy baby
We're not referring to those easy babies
Back to top

tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 23 2024, 5:22 pm
amother Cappuccino wrote:
Watergirl, you are a hero and your situation was very unusual. You are a strong mama in a horrible situation and you did your best.

For all the other posters, CIO is cruel. It’s not a cathartic release for the baby. That’s just your way of making yourself feel better.

Leaving a baby on their own in their crib to fall asleep is cruel. Babies cortisol levels sky rocket and research shows that their cortisol levels sky rocket on the night that they stop crying as well.

They are still in tremendous distress but they know there will be no one to come save them.

So when you think you were successful you’re not seeing the full picture and the distress the baby suffered through even when you think all is fine.

There are so many better ways. Get the book No Cry Sleep Solution and help them sleep gently or co sleep and nurse and go into them.


How do you know this? How do you know that a baby whose mom is sleep deprived is not in distress? Not everyone can co sleep and not everyone nurses and you are making all sorts of assumptions with nothing to back you up
Back to top

hodeez




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, May 23 2024, 5:35 pm
Ive done something resembling ferber. Everyone is happier now.
Back to top
Page 1 of 1 Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Parenting our children

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Maybe someone can help me....
by amother
3 Yesterday at 7:11 pm View last post
How can someone do this?
by amother
10 Fri, Jun 21 2024, 7:19 am View last post
What do you usually bring someone for Shabbos meal
by amother
11 Thu, Jun 20 2024, 9:24 am View last post
Is this for real, or is someone playing games?
by amother
11 Wed, Jun 19 2024, 12:58 pm View last post
Do you make sure your child knows someone in the day camp
by amother
5 Wed, Jun 19 2024, 8:18 am View last post