Can someone explain CIO?

miami85

Thu, May 23 2024, 2:46 pm

This is not coming from any official capacity but here is my take on it based on my experience as an aunt from a young age, babysitter, and mother of 6. I was never able to do it in the methodical "Ferber" method of incremental crying/checking--to me that was a tease to the baby.

To me if you have triaged your baby's needs past 4 months old and you know for a fact that baby is not hungry, dirty/wet, in pain (teething/gas) and that based on behavior/schedule etc. the baby should be ready for sleep if they cry for a few minutes--shouldn't be more than 10 and the cry should be a steady/moaning cry, not sharp or intensifying cry, then it will not do long term damage.

I had one child who had a solid bedtime routine of waving goodnight to everyone, she would say "night-night" to herself in the mirror. When she could walk she would even walk to her crib willingly at bedtime. But as soon as I put her in she would cry almost every time--it was like an unwinding catharsis of having to end the day and separate from mommy and fun. She was a pretty happy baby/toddler the rest of the day.

If baby is still crying after 15-20 minutes (it feels like a long time, I can't say its a firm number) or standing or anything doesn't seem "right" then I would check the diaper, think if teething is an issue and give tylenol as appropriate. Sometimes I would reevaluate that maybe baby just isn't ready for bed and give them another 30-60 mins before trying again.

watergirl

Thu, May 23 2024, 3:00 pm

Posting under my own name because I am not ashamed. I don't think CIO is a good idea, I don't thnk it should be a default or be done lightly. I did it under the supervision of our doctor and I have no regrets.

Shaken baby syndrome is a very real thing and if anyone feels they are chas v'shalom going to get near that point, all parenting ideals need to be thrown out the window and professional help needs to come in. That's what I did.

I did CIO with my oldest who is now an adult. It was a literal matter of life and death for the baby sadly, as I had PP anxiety, an abusive ex, and one day I tossed baby into their crib so hard, baby literally bounced. The baby was 5 months old. I shut the door, called my ex (then husband) to come home from work, and then I called my obgyn and said I needed help, he was a malach and set me up with a therapist and psychiatrist that day. The ped told me to let the baby CIO, because my ex would not help at night or really ever, and I was in no shape to care for the baby at night until I got regulated, and at 5 months, the baby was old enough to sleep. So it took 2 nights, first night the baby cried for 45 mins (I was in the shower the whole time also crying, ex was in bed with headphones on but it didn't bother him at all and this was WAY before noise cancelling head phones). Second night the baby cried for 10 minutes. Third night baby slept. I got the help I needed and was a better mom BH. baby is alive today BH because I did this. I had no choice.

I never imagined I would let a baby CIO and I did not let my next kids CIO but BH I was remarried by then and he did more than his share.

I will say this - my ex in laws did not believe in holding a crying baby. My ex grew up with the saying, if the baby is crying while I am holding it, and crying when I am not holding it, I wont hold it. And they did not believe in walking the halls with a crying baby to sooth it or really anything else. It was all on me, often while being told "you are doing this to yourself" and "I don't want to hear you say you're tired, you did this to yourself". It was a hard time.

****************************

True CIO should only take a few days and the baby wont cry all night. They tend to fall asleep at the 45 min. mark from what I've read and heard anecdotally.

TR91

Thu, May 23 2024, 5:53 pm

watergirl wrote:

I'm inspired by you using your screen name. And of course it makes your message a lot stronger. Thank you for sharing your story.

(And I know it's been so many years, but I'm still sorry for what you went through and glad you were strong and brave to get help.)

amother

Seagreen

Thu, May 23 2024, 6:05 pm

watergirl wrote:

I agree. I guess Hashem took pity on babies that don’t have someone available emotionally or physically to take care of them and the crying stops eventually. But it’s not the first choice. Depends on the temperament of the baby some babies trauma is major and some are just tesign to it easy because they are easygoing and mellow. And it never just one time because when the baby is sick and you hold him you need to do it again and other life events that disturb the routine. Chazal said that a woman that lets her baby cry will pay for it. Of course if you did it because you were persuaded that it’s good for the baby you are שוגג. It’s a big job to take care of a baby at night. That’s why people used to live with their extended family girls didn’t go to school and were available to help 24/7. It’s very different and I know it’s very difficult but still…

watergirl

Thu, May 23 2024, 6:18 pm

amother Seagreen wrote:

I’m not sure what you were trying to accomplish with this post, but I promise you it didn’t happen. Unless you were trying to make me feel bad.

Regarding the bold, I was not persuaded, I knew I had to do it because the situation as is was life or death. And yes it was one time. Two nights.

Re: your chazal - that was cruel.

Chasdei Hashem you don’t know what it’s like to have postpartum illness with a family that wants you to abuse your child daily by letting her cry laying on a blanket on the floor, and then telling you that you’re stupid for wanting to hold her sooth her. Zero support.

I was brave enough to post under my username because I had nothing to hide. How about you?

I’ve been on this website very long time and I’ve developed a pretty thick skin, but this post is really affecting me so I’m going to sign off for a little bit.

amother

Seagreen

Thu, May 23 2024, 6:21 pm

watergirl wrote:

I’m sorry very very very much. I didn’t mean to make you feel bad. I think your situation was the best choice available and you are very smart a
Nd brave and you saved your family. Please forgive me and I really mean what I wrote now not just to make you feel better

ittsamother

Thu, May 23 2024, 6:36 pm

amother Seagreen wrote:

Wow the sheer amount of judgement pouring thru this post. I will follow Watergirl's lead and post under my screen name because I am not ashamed either. And I don't have any rough story like Watergirl did- just a normal loving family and normal yummy kids, and a busy work-life balance that needed a sane woman around. I sleep trained each of my kids, yes there was crying but minimal in the scheme of things, and by the 3rd night each time, they were peacefully going to sleep.

I went thru their bedtime routine, cuddled them, put them in, and left the room. After 5 minutes of crying, I came back in, shushed and patted them, and left again, and repeated as often as necessary until it was just a low kvetch, and usually at that point they were asleep within the next few minutes. I believe, as Watergirl said, it was abt 45 min the first night, 20 the next, and no time the 3rd.

I 100% do not think this was detrimental to my kids at all in any way, I plan to do it with any future kids, and I think I did my babies -and the family- a huge favor by helping them get into an easy routine where they could smoothly drop off into sleep, and soothe themselves quickly back to sleep when they woke in the middle of the night. There have been so many times where I've heard one of my babies give 1 little kvetch randomly at 12:30 or so and then quiet. (Of course if there's more substantial crying than that we go in to check it out and take care of the situation.)

Making mothers feel like they're monsters or emotionally unavailable if they dare let their babies cry for any amount of time is cruel and nasty.

amother

Poppy

Thu, May 23 2024, 6:55 pm

ittsamother wrote:

I sleep trained each of my kids, yes there was crying but minimal in the scheme of things, and by the 3rd night each time, they were peacefully going to sleep.

I went thru their bedtime routine, cuddled them, put them in, and left the room. After 5 minutes of crying, I came back in, shushed and patted them, and left again, and repeated as often as necessary until it was just a low kvetch, and usually at that point they were asleep within the next few minutes. I believe, as Watergirl said, it was abt 45 min the first night, 20 the next, and no time the 3rd.

I 100% do not think this was detrimental to my kids at all in any way, I plan to do it with any future kids, and I think I did my babies -and the family- a huge favor by helping them get into an easy routine where they could smoothly drop off into sleep, and soothe themselves quickly back to sleep when they woke in the middle of the night. There have been so many times where I've heard one of my babies give 1 little kvetch randomly at 12:30 or so and then quiet. (Of course if there's more substantial crying than that we go in to check it out and take care of the situation.)

Making mothers feel like they're monsters or emotionally unavailable if they dare let their babies cry for any amount of time is cruel and nasty.

Same here. My kids need to be “taught” what it feels like to be tired, and when you feel tired, you go to sleep. Some kids fall asleep easier than other, and some kids are bigger fighters. I do what is necessary to keep myself sane.

amother

Cappuccino

Thu, May 23 2024, 7:47 pm

Watergirl, you are a hero and your situation was very unusual. You are a strong mama in a horrible situation and you did your best.

For all the other posters, CIO is cruel. It’s not a cathartic release for the baby. That’s just your way of making yourself feel better.

Leaving a baby on their own in their crib to fall asleep is cruel. Babies cortisol levels sky rocket and research shows that their cortisol levels sky rocket on the night that they stop crying as well.

They are still in tremendous distress but they know there will be no one to come save them.

So when you think you were successful you’re not seeing the full picture and the distress the baby suffered through even when you think all is fine.

There are so many better ways. Get the book No Cry Sleep Solution and help them sleep gently or co sleep and nurse and go into them.

amother

Jade

Thu, May 23 2024, 8:14 pm

amother Cappuccino wrote:

Then explain to me why when I put my baby in his crib I could see on the monitor that he laid there happily sucking on his fingers for a bit before falling asleep if he’s in such distress

giftedmom

Thu, May 23 2024, 8:20 pm

amother Cappuccino wrote:

If they’re not crying to begin with then they’re not in distress

tichellady

Thu, May 23 2024, 8:22 pm

amother Cappuccino wrote:

How do you know this? How do you know that a baby whose mom is sleep deprived is not in distress? Not everyone can co sleep and not everyone nurses and you are making all sorts of assumptions with nothing to back you up