Drinking mevushal wine with non-Jews

amother

Thu, Aug 28 2008, 8:56 am

We had my husband's old friend over for dinner last night. He has a Jewish dad but his mother is not Jewish.

DH pulled out bottle of wine (mevushal) to enjoy with his friend.

He told me later that it was OK to drink mevushal wine with a non-Jew, that it is akin to grape juice. I'm pretty sure he's right, but does anyone know for certain?

manhattanmom

Thu, Aug 28 2008, 10:53 am

Yes. It's wine that is not mevushal that is more of a problem--because of the preparation process it goes through.
When wine is "mevushal" it means that there's an extra step that involves boiling the wine.

MOE

Thu, Aug 28 2008, 4:24 pm

it would be a problem if it was not mevushel and the only problem would be that you dh's friend couldnt pour it for your dh besides the friend isint jewish so he dosnt have to keep kosher

Crayon210

Thu, Aug 28 2008, 5:18 pm

MOE wrote:

it would be a problem if it was not mevushel and the only problem would be that you dh's friend couldnt pour it for your dh besides the friend isint jewish so he dosnt have to keep kosher

The only problem would be that the friend couldn't pour for him? That's not the only problem.

montrealmommy

Thu, Aug 28 2008, 7:54 pm

ok, I deal with this a lot: accroding to all the rebbeim and poskim I have consulted here are the results:

1 - bare bones hlacha - if a non jew touches/pours/transports an OPEN bottle ofnon-mevushal wine; it is now considered 'treif', in so far s it can no longer be consumed by a jew.

2 - as a 'geder' to #1, if a non-jew is present when a non-mvushal bottle is open, the same rule applies, even ifthe non-jew did not touch the bottle.

as far as closed bottles, non-frum yidden, it really truely is a q for your LOR;

Commonly accepted though is that unless one is certain all persons present are shomrei mitzvosu torah - thn the wine must be mevshal.

Feel free to pm me for more if you'd like

FYI - I work in the kosher wine distribution field and also manage a kosher br service.

Mimisinger

Thu, Aug 28 2008, 10:22 pm

I don't think I've ever even had mevushal wine. We're not the type to notice the difference, I more a moscato d'asti girl myself. Smile

I think the problem was that drinking could lead to business w/ non-Jews while drunk which is bad business for the Jews.

montrealmommy

Thu, Aug 28 2008, 10:52 pm

Quote:

her question isnt about non mevushel wine its about mevushel wine.....no problem with him drinking touching or bathing in it if he liked..

I was responding to:

Quote:

The only problem would be that the friend couldn't pour for him? That's not the only problem

.

The halacha is regarding non-mevushal wine, regarding mevushal wine there are many different opinions - that is what I was trying to clarify, for some mevushal is no problem, no matter who or what is around - for others, even mevushal wine isn't ok, meaning they would none the less obstain from drinking it if a non-frum jew handled it.

Crayon210

Thu, Aug 28 2008, 10:55 pm

Mimisinger wrote:

I don't think I've ever even had mevushal wine. We're not the type to notice the difference, I more a moscato d'asti girl myself. Smile

What does moscato d'asti have to do with mevushal?

I find it hard to believe that you've never had mevushal wine. The default now is that most wine is mevushal.

Quote:

I think the problem was that drinking could lead to business w/ non-Jews while drunk which is bad business for the Jews.

Actually, it has to do with idol worship.

montrealmommy

Thu, Aug 28 2008, 10:55 pm

Quote:

I don't think I've ever even had mevushal wine.

- Mimi, unless you are in the habit of drinking french wines or expensive israeli wines, the many of the commercially sold wines from europe, israel and america are mevushal. and if you are of the former category - l'chaim! you have great taste!

someoneoutthere

Fri, Aug 29 2008, 1:07 am

[quote="Crayon210

Quote:

I think the problem was that drinking could lead to business w/ non-Jews while drunk which is bad business for the Jews.

Actually, it has to do with idol worship.[/quote]

Crayon is right. It's a problem of Yayin Nesech- the wine is considered wine for idol worship, unless it was cooked (mevushal) in which case it's unfit for the service of idols, so there isn't that concern with the thoughts of the non-Jew being idolatrous etc.

I think the original quote is based on a confusion with the reasons for pas/bishul yisroel, both of which are 'mipnei bas akum' - so that one shouldn't marry a non-Jewish girl.

There are those that will generally take issue to the idea of a Jew drinking with a non-Jew, as we are not supposed to fraternize with non-Jews. Be cordial, kind, yes. Take the relationship past business accounts and office gossip....speak to your personal mentor/rabbi/rebbitzen/spiritual guide....