Palin's daughter pregnant!

Seraph

Tue, Sep 02 2008, 2:18 pm

Clarissa wrote:

Seraph, before I "grow up," I thought it was funny. I don't think families have anything to do with the election. I just think this guy is embarrassingly immature. Some of my friends' kids have MySpace pages, and believe me, the teenagers don't post stupid, vulgar tripe like that. I cursed plenty in my youth but was able to separate my public self from my private self. I was telling my husband about it -- it should serve as a cautionary tale to teens that nothing you post on the internet ever really goes away, and someday you'll be an adult, out in the working world, or even well-known.

I believe if you peruse the posts about Palin, in EVERY one of my posts I say that it doesn't matter to me, who their children are, what their marriages are like, etc. So you're preaching to the converted, Seraph.

sorry, the "grow up" wasnt directed at you specifically (you know I like you and wouldnt talk to you like that), but just I was fed up with this intrusion into people's private life.
And clarissa, embarassingly immature is subjective. Its been quite a few years since you were a teenager, hasnt it? I just was one. My old boss was in his mid-late twenties and two kids and talked like this. So did lots of my coworkers. I dont approve of it, but I dont think cussing and being into snowboarding and hunting and chilling makes someone immature. Different values, perhaps. But not immature.

Clarissa

Tue, Sep 02 2008, 2:23 pm

True, although having graduated from college at 12, run a multi-national corporation at 15 and completed three doctorates by the time I was 19, I can't relate.

I swear, I don't care about her daughter's pregnancy or the kid. Pregnancies happen, goofy teenaged fathers happen, elections happen.

I'm sounding very Zen here...

chavamom

Tue, Sep 02 2008, 2:24 pm

I feel horrible for Bristol that she has to have such a public teenage pregnancy But I think the mom has made the kids part of her Christian Family Values agenda and is the one who has made the (imnsho "moronic") decision for them to be in the spotlight. While people criticized Obama for saying that he wouldn't want his dd "punished" with an unintended pregnancy, it certainly seem that this is exactly what is happening to Bristol Palin.

HindaRochel

Tue, Sep 02 2008, 2:25 pm

Seraph wrote:

Clarissa wrote:

It is, unfortunately, pretty normal among the younger crowd. And a lot of young married people are immature, and need to kind of grrow up a bit together, work out all the kinks.

No one would say this is the best situation; but doom and gloom? Death to Palin's career? Come on....so silly.

princessleah

Tue, Sep 02 2008, 3:02 pm

I think we all agree that noone blames Sarah Palin for her daughter's behavior. We all agree that it is not her fault. But I will make the Cheney comparison here: when you are staunchly anti-gay rights, and go to your lesbian daughter's wedding, you look stupid and hypocritical. When you are pro-abstinence, ostensibly because you believe it works, and then your teenage daughter gets pregnant, you look stupid! That is all.

But please answer this question for me: When you are a strict anti-abortion crusader, how can you NOT support comprehensive s-x ed and contraception use? I assume that if you do not want abortions to happen, the best way to accomplish this is to NOT get pregnant in the first place. And the best way for that to happen is to use BIRTH CONTROL. Saying to kids, "do not have s-x" does not work, as the past 100 years in the United States have shown.

Also, if you are pro-LIFE, how can you be pro-guns? And how can you be pro-death penalty?

chaylizi

Tue, Sep 02 2008, 3:04 pm

btMOMtoFFBs wrote:

If I were Bristol's mom I would encourage her to give the baby up for adoption. That is much more honorable. The baby would be raised by responsible parents (hopefully) who are ready emotionally and financially to raise a child.

I would NOT encourage my teen to marry a boy just because he impregnated her. IMHO its not fair to the boy, to Bristol or to the baby.

There are people who suffer their whole lives, because they gave a baby up for adoption in their teens. I would only encourage her to do this, if this is what she wanted to do.

chaylizi

Tue, Sep 02 2008, 3:07 pm

ora_43 wrote:

SuperMama wrote:

It's sad, but in todays world the non jews need their kids on birth control and it's irresponsible that the mother didn't have her daughter on it in my opinion.

Where are you getting your information about non jews that you think all of them need to be on birth control??? That's just ridiculous. Despite what you might see on TV, or what others tell you is on TV, many teens are not s-xually active.

To say a parent should force their child to go on birth control is ludicrous. Even if it didn't send the wrong message, even if it wouldn't create an atmosphere of complete distrust between child and parent, birth control only protects against pregnancy, which is far from the worst thing one can get from unprotected s-x.

I wasn't aware that you could force a teen to do too much these days. Many teens get downright rebellious & tend to close their ears when their parents tell them what to do. This happens in homes where there is a mitzvah of kibbud horim. I imagine that in more "enlightened" homes, teenage attitude problems can be somewhat worse.

nafka-mina

Tue, Sep 02 2008, 3:14 pm

princessleah wrote:

Also, if you are pro-LIFE, how can you be pro-guns? And how can you be pro-death penalty?

the torah, lehavdil elef havdalos, is pro-life and at the same is pro-guns (haba l'horgecha hashkem lehorgo) and pro capital punishment.

this statement doesn't make sense even without looking at torah, because those who are anti-guns, anti-death penalty are usually pro-abortion and euthanasia.

simply put, guns and and death penalty are a method of protecting life. I don't see a contradiction - on the contrary!

chaylizi

Tue, Sep 02 2008, 3:15 pm

HindaRochel wrote:

chavamom wrote:

micfri wrote:

Maybe she did give her an education about birth control and the kid didn't take the advice.

Look, it's possible. But her public stance is she doesn't believe in it and supports an "abstinence only" approach. It's more the irony of her embracing a policy that has been shown not to work.....and it didn't work in her own family.

Rarely do things work perfectly.
Which is why as Orthodox Jews we don't tell our children that at least if they are going to eat treif make sure to get tested for allergies to shell fish.

actually knowing that your child is allergic to shellfish is useful anyway, even if shellfish never crosses their lips. people allergic to shellfish are treated as allergic to iodine & contrast dye for diagnostic tests. occasionally, thinking outside the box is useful.

chavamom

Tue, Sep 02 2008, 3:25 pm

chaylizi wrote:

Quote:

This study shows the rates of birth/abortion are declinging among teens.

This doesn't seem to be the case in my l & d department. There is no shortage of underage parents. I suppose my city could be unique, but I highly doubt it. Chavamom?

Uh, no. Where I work, a 23 year-old having a baby is "old". They think I'm ancient and should be a grandmother already!

princessleah

Tue, Sep 02 2008, 3:38 pm

[quote] [quote="nafka-mina"][quote="princessleah"]Also, if you are pro-LIFE, how can you be pro-guns? And how can you be pro-death penalty?[/quote]the torah, lehavdil elef havdalos, is pro-life and at the same is pro-guns (haba l'horgecha hashkem lehorgo) and pro capital punishment.

this statement doesn't make sense even without looking at torah, because those who are anti-guns, anti-death penalty are usually pro-abortion and euthanasia.

simply put, guns and and death penalty are a method of protecting life. I don't see a contradiction - on the contrary! [/quote]

Are you kidding me? First of all, the Talmud talks about how the death penalty was NEVER given in all the days of the Sanhedrin because the criteria were so strict that humans never gave it out, and that probably that was the intention. Second, it has been repeatedly studied and proven that the death penalty is NOT a deterrent to future crimes, so how does it protect life? Who are we to play God by deciding who lives and who dies?
Finally, that quote from the Torah just says that you are allowed to kill in self-defense if someone is coming to kill you. It does not say ANYTHING about guns-- that would be quite amusing, since they had not been invented yet.

nafka-mina

Tue, Sep 02 2008, 3:43 pm

princessleah wrote:

Are you kidding me? First of all, the Talmud talks about how the death penalty was NEVER given in all the days of the Sanhedrin because the criteria were so strict that humans never gave it out, and that probably that was the intention.

wrong! the death penalty was definitely carried out, but a beit din that executed someone fasted on that day and was labeled "beis din katlani" (hope I got that right).

Quote:

Second, it has been repeatedly studied and proven that the death penalty is NOT a deterrent to future crimes, so how does it protect life? Who are we to play God by deciding who lives and who dies?

the thread of the death penalty hovering over a potential murderer can definitely stop him. too bad it hasn't been tried in NY.

Quote:

Finally, that quote from the Torah just says that you are allowed to kill in self-defense if someone is coming to kill you. It does not say ANYTHING about guns-- that would be quite amusing, since they had not been invented yet.

how would you kill without a weapon? choke the person who's shooting you?!

ora_43

Tue, Sep 02 2008, 3:49 pm

princessleah wrote:

So you think it's OK to kill an attacker, but not OK to use a gun? What do you have against guns if not the fact that they are used to kill people?

chaylizi

Tue, Sep 02 2008, 3:52 pm

ora_43 wrote:

princessleah wrote:

So you think it's OK to kill an attacker, but not OK to use a gun? What do you have against guns if not the fact that they are used to kill people?

I don't think that death penalty & self defense are considered the same thing. Furthermore, the US justice system is not exactly sanhedrin.