Is Palin's pregnant daughter a reflection on her as a mother

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amother

Wed, Sep 03 2008, 8:56 am

We've hade Rabbonim and authors claiming that when a child shows lack of respect for the parents' religion and goes against the parents' beliefs and and mores, and exhibits behavior considered negative to parents and role models, it is the fault of the parents' , their relationship with their children and home atmosphere.

There is no doubt that Palin raised her children with very strong religious beliefs, only to be smacked in the face by her teen daughter's pregnancy, which Palin, a very public figure, has no choice but to accept.

Wouldn't Rabbanim's and psychologist's opinion of Palin be similar, if the above is undeniable?

Or are we going to find a way to let Palin off the hook, because the above mentioned opinions only apply to Jews, or some other murky rationale, so that we can feel better about voting for the McCain team?

HindaRochel

Wed, Sep 03 2008, 9:11 am

Moshe Rebbeinu's children.
Aaron's children.
David HaMelech's children.
Many children of many Rebbanium have acted in a fashion which was questionable and went against their parents teachings.
l'havdil, there is obviously a difference between the above and Palin.

Yes, it says somewhere along the line she failed to instill in her child the knowledge that no matter what she should not engage in s-x before marriage.
It doesn't say she failed as a mother.

Last edited by HindaRochel on Wed, Sep 03 2008, 11:55 am; edited 1 time in total

Clarissa

Wed, Sep 03 2008, 9:11 am

I don't think this reflects on Palin as a parent, but how can I say? I'm not in her home, I don't know the family. Kids will sometimes make choices that go against our beliefs, and sometimes they make mistakes. Only people very close to them can hazard a guess as to what happened.

As far as what the rabbanim and authors say, maybe it's true sometimes and maybe it's not (some kids have very strong, independent natures) but maybe it's good to say this to parents, so they realize that they have this incredible responsibility to shape these young people by what we say, what we do and how we live. Maybe it's really only true a certain percentage of the time, that the parents have failed when the kids have wound up going in a questionable direction. But kids are human beings, with brains and personalities of their own. Still, we can never let parents off the hook, because who has greater power to create who the children will become, ultimately?

In any case, this wouldn't affect my vote either way. I don't take a strong interest in candidate's families unless something is really glaringly troubling. A teen having premarital s*x isn't ideal, but it tells me very little about what she heard growing up, or how much she respects her parents, or whether they're worthy of respect in the first place. (Personal detail follows) My parents have been my best friends forever. I adore and respect them. I've always been way closer to them than almost anybody I know is to their parents, we speak several times a day, I ask advice and share my feelings and learn so much from this relationship. My mother made a very strong pitch for me saving myself for marriage. I don't consider myself to have been a particularly wild kid, not any more rebellious than many other kids out there. Without getting too personal, let me just say that I paid more attention to her baking advice than her chastity advice. 'Nuff said.

stem

Wed, Sep 03 2008, 9:28 am

Even if she did fail in that respect, there is still so much to admire about her. Besides, I would vote for her as VP a million times before voting in a President who is so left wing and liberal. All you guys who are so pro-obama are just fixating on that one aspect of her life, it makes no sense. How many presidents have done much worse themselves, not to mention their children, and are still thought of a great leaders. She is running for VP, and is more qualified for the job than obama is for president. Look at the big picture, look at who is running for president, who's the one you really want representing and leading your country?

Clarissa

Wed, Sep 03 2008, 9:31 am

stem wrote:

Read OP's question. Can you give an answer to the question without getting all "you Obama-lovers" partisan on us? I answered in an honest and, if I may say so, well thought-out way that had nothing to do with who I'm voting for. Is the pregnancy a reflection, etc. If you didn't know me and you read my answer, you wouldn't know what party I belonged to. Must every post on this board turn into what you just did -- blasting one party or another? OP's question was about a teen pregnancy and how it reflects on the famous parents. HindaRochel and I answered the question. I'm a Democrat, she's a Republican, I think. Neither of us got political.

costanza

Wed, Sep 03 2008, 9:35 am

This is such a complicated issue and I don't think any generalizations can be made. Each family dynamic is unique and each individual relationship within a family is unique. Sarah Palin, who I never heard of before last week, seems very accomplished, determined and intelligent. I don't think this is the path she would have wanted her daughter to take - but can the mother be held responsible for every choice her children make? I hope not.

waterbottle

Wed, Sep 03 2008, 12:36 pm

Rural Alaska is quite boring... I mean they are from a town of 6000 people. What else is there for teenagers to do during the cold winter months when they are stuck inside??

Atali

Wed, Sep 03 2008, 12:42 pm

waterbottle wrote:

Rural Alaska is quite boring... I mean they are from a town of 6000 people. What else is there for teenagers to do during the cold winter months when they are stuck inside??

Actually, that is an interesting point. I read that in the state that I lived in Australia, the teen birth rates were much higher in the rural towns (I think it was about 17% of all pregnancies) than in Melbourne (about 3% of all pregnancies). The explanation given was that those in rural areas are more likely to oppose abortion, but maybe there was more to it.

mama-star

Wed, Sep 03 2008, 12:53 pm

I don't think it reflects necessarily on their parents. parents can try their best and teenagers do what they want anyway.

waterbottle

Wed, Sep 03 2008, 12:58 pm

17 isn't that young.. Certain Jewish communities marry off their daughters commonly at 16 and 17. Although it's out of wedlock, they are still in High School and it's not really accepted for HS students to be married.

Clarissa

Wed, Sep 03 2008, 1:00 pm

Atali wrote:

waterbottle wrote:

Rural Alaska is quite boring... I mean they are from a town of 6000 people. What else is there for teenagers to do during the cold winter months when they are stuck inside??

Well, in my youth, there were all of those farmer's daughter jokes. She was pretty promiscuous. Hmmm...

j/k, but I think there's no shortage of pregnant teenaged girls here in NYC.

louche

Wed, Sep 03 2008, 1:07 pm

You can't guarantee your child's behavior no matter how fine a parent, teacher and leader-by-example you are. Every person is an individual with his or her own ideas, thoughts, fears, urges, weaknesses, rebellions, temptations, opportunities, friends, and influences. Having a child who strays from the path you've laid out does not necessarily mean you were a bad, weak or incompetent parent. You do the best you can, and the rest is up to your child--and to Hashem.

Clarissa

Wed, Sep 03 2008, 1:09 pm

Louche is back!

greenfire

Wed, Sep 03 2008, 1:13 pm

Clarissa wrote:

Louche is back!

kool

(I think she just wants the sheitel Twisted Evil

)

greenfire

Wed, Sep 03 2008, 1:18 pm

STOP BLAMING PARENTS !!!!!!

I imagine that everybody has good & bad in their lives ... including Palin - whom I haven't heard of until this thread ... I hate politics ... I hate judging and blaming ...

what do you guys/gals think of the christian parents who raised their child who ran away, became famous by singing a song entitled "I kissed a girl and I liked it" ... you gotta know some rebels are without a cause & tend to want to prove their parents - not to mention religion - as a cause for their upheaval rebelliousness ...

Tamiri

Wed, Sep 03 2008, 1:49 pm

You can't blame parents. But, I think that if mom is around home a lot and knows where her DD is at all times and DD knows this... there is less of a chance that she'll come home with a bun in the oven.
If mom and daughter are close, mom will see what is going on and take DD to the GYN to get something to help her not get pg.
Then again, I don't have daughters.

Clarissa

Wed, Sep 03 2008, 1:54 pm

Tamiri wrote:

Even SAHM's sometimes wind up with grandbuns in their daughter's oven. Teenagers generally are out enough to find time to be alone with a boyfriend. I want to add that it's just as important to be involved with sons and not just daughters, as I hear it takes two to tango, even though one generally can tango off while the other deals with the bun.

On the other hand, we have no idea how involved or uninvolved she is in her children's lives. We also know very little about all of the candidates as parents, except for Joe Biden. It's well-known that after his wife and daughter were killed in a car accident, he traveled all the way home every night to be with his young sons. That's an extreme situation, of course. But we know very little about McCain and Obama as parents.

I agree with your point about closeness. A friend of mine recently found out that her teenaged daughter was involved in a serious relationship. She made sure that her daughter knew how to be careful and protect herself against pregnancy and diseases.

gonewiththewind

Wed, Sep 03 2008, 2:54 pm

For teens their peer group is more important to the than parents. If a girl watches TV and movies and has s-xually active friends, that usually has more influence than the parents. The only way we in the frum world keep our kids out of trouble is by not being a real part of the world out there. Even the modern orthodox, who believe in being more part of the world, still have a a major identity, practices, and group belonging that separates them from the rest of the world. As you more right along the spectrum, the separation grows, but we all have some.
That being said, I have no idea if the Palins are good parents. They may be, even if she is a working mother. We just don't have the information.

Clarissa

Wed, Sep 03 2008, 3:03 pm

First Louche returns and now miriamf! This is a good day. Stick around, okay?

Akeres Habayis

Wed, Sep 03 2008, 3:04 pm

since I saw this thread I wanted to think about how to post,bc its well known I support obama LOL

BUT
as a mother,I dont know if I would be able to subject my daughter to the scrutiny, palin was told she would be under scrutiny once nominated for VP.I dont know if I could have accepted it,not at the expense of my family.

so I feel sorry for the daughter,I'm sure she would prefer not to have her public life across national t.v.,and her boyfriend probably looks like a "deer in front of headlights".the parents of the boy,and the girl herself,probably would have preferred no attention at all!but bc palin wanted to be VP(,it is an amazing aspiration,exhilarating to be considered 2nd in command of the U.S).

another thing,why wait until the media brings it up for palin to say anything,the daughter is 5months pregnant,if they had every intentions of getting married from the beginning,"my daughter is engaged to be married,congratulations are in order not just for me but for her"?
the answer can't be bc it's a a private matter,bc once u run for public office,then there isnt' a such thing a privacy.

heck if we can subject obama to the crimes of the father that he never knew, we for sure can subject palin to this scrutiny.

so the whole family thing,just kind of "doesn't sit well w/me"
if its so close knit,and she is so family oriented,it should be not at the expense of her family.
if the wedding was sincere,and planned at the beginning it should have been announced immediately(bc there is no doubt the media would find out)bc it was going to happen from the word 1st month pregnant.
the embarrassment to all people involved,why accept it upon them?

one side note,can u imagine the message we send to teenagers if she is elected??
I can hear the conversations in their homes"the VP didn't say anything about her daughter having s*x,she even allowed them to get married after she was pregnant!or something like that.
personally I think it gives a stamp of approval,whether its palin's intentions or not.

mistakes happen,and there are reasons for them bc of the choices we make in life.her daughter chose to be promiscuous even though she knew her mother advocated abstinence..publicly.
the only thing a parent can do,is be there for their kids,and if they get pregnant G-d forbid before marriage,is to be there for them.but with the elections how can she??how can she be there for the baby?
I see it as a tough road for her,my friend who has a down syndrome baby,had to be w/her all the time,w therapy appointments,and doing home therapy,from what she learned from the OT.it took both her and her dh to work w/their daughter,its a full time job,now that she is older,the dh doesn't help as much,but still involved.so again I dont see palin as the way they portray her.

so yes I think this is a bad reflection on her as a mother,bc looking at the situation,to me,shows her career is very important to her,even at the expense of her children.IMO

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