Op-ed J. Mark compares Palin to Shluchos

Raisin

Thu, Sep 11 2008, 7:50 pm

cassandra wrote:

Raisin wrote:

right now I know there are 6 or 7 guests coming.. tomorrow afternoon it will probably be 16...or 26)

OT-- I once was out of the country and needed a shabbos meal at the local chabad shaliach. My friend and I, having been raised well, called numerous times during the week to ask if we could come to them for a meal. Nobody ever answered our calls, until we finally caught up with someone on Friday afternoon (I think we met someone on the street) and we got our meal. How common is this? And is moose kosher?

moose are kosher. I guess you were unlucky with getting hold of the shliach. maybe they were away, or it just really busy. in our city, as well as being the only shliach, dh is the only Rabbi at the moment. it can be pretty difficult to keep up with everything. we try. But sometimes, things don't happen. like sleep.

cassandra

Thu, Sep 11 2008, 7:52 pm

I'm not complaining about the way they run things. I think these particular shlichim lived in one city during the week and came to another city for shabbos. I guess it's all part of the fun to never know how many people you're having.... I could never do it.

NotInNJMommy

Thu, Sep 11 2008, 7:57 pm

I believe Moose is kosher...

And I don't think the article remotely insinuated that shluchos don't have brains. I agree with above assessments that the author was trying to describe how shluchos and Palin , l'havdil, are in the real world, relating to people, talking to people, rather than theorizing, speechifying, and forecasting.

I think with shluchos and others representing frumkeit, they show the reality of yiddishkeit, that it's not a ceremony, ritual, "other" part of ones life, but it IS everyday life. It is real. It is doing, not just thinking, experiencing, etc. (though that's certainly a part, it's not the tachlis).

Re: the school, it may not be a fit for everyone. A parent must trust the school and stand behind the school, and if they don't think they can, it's better they find a school they WILL feel that way about. If children see their parents not supporting their school/teachers, it effects their respect for them and their learning, not for the better.

However, this was a guy writing about some women he knows. I don't know that one can fairly assume this represents the views of the school or their faculty/administration.

Raisin

Thu, Sep 11 2008, 8:01 pm

cassandra wrote:

Well, I could just plan for 30 people. I just hate waste. I cook the same amount every week of challa, kugel etc.

it's not tourists who are last minute. it's students usually.

Clarissa

Thu, Sep 11 2008, 8:26 pm

NotInNJMommy wrote:

Re: the school, it may not be a fit for everyone. A parent must trust the school and stand behind the school, and if they don't think they can, it's better they find a school they WILL feel that way about. If children see their parents not supporting their school/teachers, it effects their respect for them and their learning, not for the better.

However, this was a guy writing about some women he knows. I don't know that one can fairly assume this represents the views of the school or their faculty/administration.

If this is in response to my comment about the Chabad school, it's a preschool, and the families I've known there are not Lubavitch by any stretch of the imagination. One family is Reform and one is Conservative. Many non-observant families go there, because it's a warm and cozy environment, with lovely teachers. It's a preschool -- learning isn't a big part of it.

gryp

Thu, Sep 11 2008, 8:45 pm

I think it's a silly article. I'm a bit nauseated at the author's idea to attempt a comparison between our outstanding, precious shluchos and Sarah Palin. This article is about Sarah Palin and politics, leave the shluchos out of it. Such nonsense.

Atali

Thu, Sep 11 2008, 9:25 pm

GR wrote:

cookielady

Thu, Sep 11 2008, 9:28 pm

Atali wrote:

GR wrote:

I'll admit, I just read the title but the concept of it irked me alot.

Crayon210

Thu, Sep 11 2008, 10:46 pm

GR wrote:

That's what a comparison usually is. It's taking two totally dissimilar things and discussing what they do have in common, which can make for some interesting ideas.

TziporahD

Thu, Sep 11 2008, 10:54 pm

GR wrote:

Raisin

Fri, Sep 12 2008, 6:38 am

cookielady wrote:

Atali wrote:

GR wrote:

I'll admit, I just read the title but the concept of it irked me alot.

Yeah, how canone compare your cookies to s.ps moose?

gryp

Fri, Sep 12 2008, 8:08 am

Crayon, some things just don't go together. Either you write a nice article about our Shluchos and the huge task they have and how good they are at it, or you concentrate on the issue you really want to talk about, which is politics. The obvious subject of this article is Palin, not the shluchos.
If I want to tell people about my washing machine, I'm not going to start telling them how my washing machine is just like legos just because I know a bunch of kids are listening.

Clarissa

Fri, Sep 12 2008, 8:15 am

Do people think that a religious website endorsing political candidates is good? And, while doing so, saying less-than-flattering comments about fellow Jews, who may have a different way of life that is no less valid? I find the whole thing kind of insulting to everyone (shluchot and liberal, intellectual Jews) except Palin. The author has some weird idea about who she or what she is, and frankly, the fantasy is just unsettling and silly.

HindaRochel

Fri, Sep 12 2008, 8:19 am

Raisin wrote:

Crayon210 wrote:

I don't think that's what he was talking about. Most shluchos are not "academics" in the sense that Cassandra referred to: they don't sit around the club smoking cigars, sipping whiskeys, discussing the theoretical effects of chicken soup on the spiritual makeup of an otherwise assimilated Jew in Poland in the 1740s. They make the chicken, invite the Jews over, make a difference in their lives.

why is he comparing shluchos to academics? how about to reform or conservative or young israel or other rabbis/rebbetzins?

I think he was comparing words (academics) to actions (Shluchos). NOT about intelligence but about how the intelligence is used.
FWIW, both academics and doers are needed and neither is more important than the other; it is just where when and how they perform their duties that is the issue.

Crayon210

Fri, Sep 12 2008, 10:11 am

GR wrote:

I think you're misunderstanding what his goal was. He was illustrating a point about a politician by comparing her to a very dissimilar group of women, for some surprising similarities, which explain why both are successful at what they do. I don't see why that's insulting. SP is not an evil person, it's not like comparing the shluchos to female SS officers in Auschwitz. THAT would be insulting.

Crayon210

Fri, Sep 12 2008, 10:12 am

Clarissa wrote:

Religious websites tend to get excited when their group is mentioned outside of their immediate community, so they post those articles. I've seen these sorts of things mentioning both sides of the political spectrum.

chanab

Fri, Sep 12 2008, 10:52 am

I think that everyone is blowing this article out of proportion. and you know what ? IÂ´m a shlucha. I donÂ´t think IÂ´m stupid. I enjoy mental stimulation and academic pursuits and IÂ´m very proud of the fact that I can "cook a chicken" and thus bring people closer to yiddishkeit.....

Motek

Fri, Sep 12 2008, 11:39 am

My first reaction when I read that some shluchos were annoyed was surprise, what bothered them?

So I looked at the article again and realized that they misunderstood "studies". Since many, if not most of them give shiurim, they thought he was not acknowledging that. But he meant studies as in research like "a study was done on ..."

clarissa - I just don't understand what ticked you off. I will repeat crayon's question to you: "how were you described?"

Clarissa

Fri, Sep 12 2008, 12:12 pm

I felt that the characterization of liberal Jews, their shuls and their rabbis was disrespectful. I thought the comment about the "empty pews" and the "suburban Sisterhood lady" were nasty and unnecessary. There are flourishing Jewish communities at all religious levels, intellectuals do not lack the warm and welcoming gene and are capable of welcoming people to the table, literally and symbolically. I think he did hit the nail on the head -- that certain Orthodox Jews do probably have more in common with a pseudo-down-home evangelical Christian, even one who believes that we're all going to he11 for not accepting J*sus, and liberal Jews like me need to remember where we stand with our fellow Jews, and how they view us.

gryp

Fri, Sep 12 2008, 12:25 pm

Crayon210 wrote:

GR wrote:

I think it's dumb. That's all.

I was confused on that "studies" thing too.