Obama - says he's christian, but proof of muslim past

Seraph

Thu, Oct 23 2008, 3:45 pm

Obama was 'quite religious in Islam'
Contemporaries, records dispute campaign claim that he was never 'practicing Muslim'
Posted: April 03, 2008
12:40 am Eastern

By Aaron Klein
© 2008 WorldNetDaily

JERUSALEM – Was Sen. Barack Obama a Muslim? Did he ever practice Islam?

The presidential candidate officially rejects the claims, but the issue of Obama's personal faith has re-emerged amid conflicting accounts of his enrollment as a Muslim during elementary school in Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim nation.

Widely distributed reports have noted in January 1968, Obama was registered as a Muslim at Jakarta's Roman Catholic Franciscus Assisi Primary School under the name Barry Soetoro. He was listed as an Indonesian citizen whose stepfather, listed on school documents as "L Soetoro Ma," worked for the topography department of the Indonesian Army.

Catholic schools in Indonesia routinely accept non-Catholic students, but exempt them from studying religion. Obama's school documents, though, wrongly list him as being Indonesian.

After attending the Assisi Primary School, Obama was enrolled – also as a Muslim, according to documents – in the Besuki Primary School, a public school in Jakarta.

(Story continues below)

The Loatze blog run by an American expatriate in Southeast Asia who visited the Besuki school, noted, "All Indonesian students are required to study religion at school and a young 'Barry Soetoro' being a Muslim would have been required to study Islam daily in school. He would have been taught to read and write Arabic, to recite his prayers properly, to read and recite from the Quran and to study the laws of Islam."

Indeed, the Israel Insider online magazine points out in Obama's autobiography, "Dreams From My Father," he acknowledges studying the Quran and describes the public school as "a Muslim school."

"In the Muslim school, the teacher wrote to tell mother I made faces during Quranic studies," wrote Obama.

The Indonesian media have been flooded with accounts of Obama's childhood Islamic studies, some describing him as a religious Muslim .

Speaking to the country's Kaltim Post, Tine Hahiyary, who was principal of Obama's school while he was enrolled there, said she recalls he studied the Quran in Arabic.

"At that time, I was not Barry's teacher but he is still in my memory" claimed Tine, who is 80 years old. The Kaltim Post says Obama's teacher, named Hendri, died.

"I remember that he studied 'mengaji (recitation of the Quran)," Tine said, according to an English translation by Loatze.

Mengaji, or the act of reading the Quran with its correct Arabic punctuation, is usually taught to more religious pupils and is not known as a secular study.

Also, Loatze documented the Indonesian daily Banjarmasin Post caught up with Rony Amir, an Obama classmate and Muslim, who describe Obama as "previously quite religious in Islam."

"We previously often asked him to the prayer room close to the house. If he was wearing a sarong (waist fabric worn for religious or casual occasions) he looked funny," Amir said.

The Los Angeles Times, which sent a reporter to Jakarta, quoted Zulfin Adi, who identified himself as among Obama's closest childhood friends, stating the presidential candidate prayed in a mosque, something Obama's campaign claimed he never did.

"We prayed but not really seriously, just following actions done by older people in the mosque. But as kids, we loved to meet our friends and went to the mosque together and played," said Adi.

Obama's official campaign site has a page titled "Obama has never been a Muslim, and is a committed Christian." The page states, "Obama never prayed in a mosque. He has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian who attends the United Church of Christ."

But the campaign changed its tune when it issued a slightly different statement to the Times stating Obama "has never been a practicing Muslim."

An article last month by the Chicago Tribune seems to dispute Adi's statements to the L.A. Times. The Tribune catches up with Obama's declared childhood friend, who now describes himself as only knowing Obama for a few months in 1970 when his family moved to the neighborhood. Adi said he was unsure about his recollections of Obama

But the Tribune found Obama did attend mosque.

"Interviews with dozens of former classmates, teachers, neighbors and friends show that Obama was not a regular practicing Muslim when he was in Indonesia," states the Tribune article.

It quotes the presidential candidate's former neighbors and 3rd grade teacher recalling Obama "occasionally followed his stepfather to the mosque for Friday prayers."

Daniel Pipes, director of the Middle East Forum, notes the Tribune article – cited by liberal blogs as refuting claims Obama is Muslim – actually implies Obama was an irregularly practicing Muslim and twice confirms Obama attended mosque services.

In a free-ranging interview with the New York Times, Obama described the Muslim call to prayer as "one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset.”

The Times' Nicholos Kristof wrote Obama recited, "with a first-class [Arabic] accent," the opening lines of the Muslim call to prayer.

Israel Insider's Reuven Koret notes the first few lines state:

"Allah is Supreme! Allah is Supreme!
Allah is Supreme! Allah is Supreme!
I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that Muhammad is his prophet... "
Some attention also has been paid to Obama's paternal side of the family. His father, described in some reports as an atheist, polygamist and alcoholic, was buried in Kenya as a Muslim. Obama Sr., also named Barack Obama, had three sons with another woman who reportedly all are Muslim.

Obama's brother Roy is described as a practicing Muslim.

Writing in a chapter of his book describing his 1992 wedding, the presidential candidate stated: "The person who made me proudest of all was Roy. Actually, now we call him Abongo, his Luo name, for two years ago he decided to reassert his African heritage. He converted to Islam, and has sworn off pork and tobacco and alcohol."

Still, Obama says he was raised by his Christian mother and repeatedly has labeled as "smears" several reports attempting to paint him as a Muslim.

"Let's make clear what the facts are: I am a Christian. I have been sworn in with a Bible. I pledge allegiance [to the American flag] and lead the pledge of allegiance sometimes in the United States Senate when I'm presiding," he told the UK's Times Online earlier this year.

Last edited by Seraph on Thu, Oct 23 2008, 6:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

Chocoholic

Thu, Oct 23 2008, 4:17 pm

Interesting.

gryp

Thu, Oct 23 2008, 4:49 pm

Seraph, this is not a new thing.
Aaron Klein is a very good, and thorough, reporter.

This is one of the things I was referring to when I wrote in another post that Obama has never explained his past where others who knew him back then have contradicted him.

The fact is, Obama has run an extremely good campaign and he's going to win. McCain has been another "Waldo." It's too bad because there is a large percentage of citizens who don't trust Obama for anything. And with all the ridiculous things that's come up during his campaign starting with Reverend Wright, he really should not have been too hard to beat. It doesn't seem like McCain even tried, honestly.

Seraph

Thu, Oct 23 2008, 5:43 pm

who edited my thread title without my permission?

mimivan

Thu, Oct 23 2008, 5:48 pm

Seraph wrote:

who edited my thread title without my permission?

could it have been the moderator??? hmm...wasn't me.

Clarissa

Thu, Oct 23 2008, 5:49 pm

Do they ask our permission now when they edit? If so, I want my thread about Obama eating babies for breakfast to be put back. An oldie but a goodie.

Seraph

Thu, Oct 23 2008, 6:02 pm

But I specifically didnt title this thread this way. And I had a funnier title with my own made up word. And now its gone. Crying

Clarissa

Thu, Oct 23 2008, 6:14 pm

That's right, and I liked your made-up word.

Tamiri

Thu, Oct 23 2008, 6:15 pm

Clarissa, which one are you rooting for? I didn't keep track.

Clarissa

Thu, Oct 23 2008, 6:16 pm

Tamiri wrote:

Clarissa, which one are you rooting for? I didn't keep track.

Which what am I rooting for? Candidate? Made-up word?

Tamiri

Thu, Oct 23 2008, 6:19 pm

Which candidate

Clarissa

Thu, Oct 23 2008, 6:46 pm

Tamiri wrote:

Which candidate

I'm a very private person. I reveal nothing about myself, and nothing in my posts would allow a reader to glean where I stand politically.

Chocoholic

Thu, Oct 23 2008, 6:49 pm

Clarissa wrote:

Tamiri wrote:

Which candidate

I'm a very private person. I reveal nothing about myself, and nothing in my posts would allow a reader to glean where I stand politically.

Let's hope you're just kidding. It's very clear to me you are a left-liberal.

Clarissa

Thu, Oct 23 2008, 7:34 pm

A left-liberal? How many kinds of liberals are there? Anyway, I'm shocked and saddened to have been outed as a supposed left-liberal. I've been so consistently reticent.

avigailmiriam

Thu, Oct 23 2008, 7:40 pm

Of course he was registered as a Muslim. Indonesia is a country where
1. You are considered, by law, a Muslim if your father was one. It is illegal to claim to practice another religion if you are a Muslim. Obama's (absent) father was a lapsed Muslim, so Obama is born one by default. In Islam, you inherit your religion from your father, the same way children inherit Judaism from their mother.

2. If you are a Muslim under Indonesian law, it goes on all your official documents, REGARDLESS OF YOUR BELIEFS. He had no say in his registration as a Muslim.

3. If you are a registered Muslim in Indonesia REGARDLESS OF YOUR BELIEFS you go to a Muslim school. And religion is part of the curriculum. Obama had no say in what he was taught. And I can recite the Lord's Prayer in Latin and have studied the Christian Bible in depth. Anyone here want to try and call me Christian? Go ahead, I dare you.

4. Obama can be proud his of his bro9ther finding his faither without being a Muslim. There are parents of BTs who are proud of their children for finding a faith and grounding that fufills them. It doesn't make those parents frum.

Are we going to view Obama's unfair treatment as a child under an authoritarian Muslim regime as evidence of his current religious beliefs when he's been a Christian since college? This is absurd.

cassandra

Thu, Oct 23 2008, 8:03 pm

Clarissa wrote:

A left-liberal? How many kinds of liberals are there? Anyway, I'm shocked and saddened to have been outed as a supposed left-liberal. I've been so consistently reticent.

You never heard of the Liberal Republicans? Sure, that party died in 1872, but it's bound to make a comeback any day now.

Clarissa

Thu, Oct 23 2008, 8:06 pm

Thanks for explaining. I thought she was outing me as being left-handed.

poemmom

Thu, Oct 23 2008, 9:12 pm

Actually he's such a good Christian that he went to church for 20 years but never heard what the pastor was saying, because he was so deep in prayer to J.