Crying it out at nine months?

GAMZu

Thu, Nov 06 2008, 7:43 pm

Ruchel, we're not discussing co-sleeping or room sharing. Personally, I found those 2 methods great alternatives for CIO. So sure, have your baby sleep anywhere you want, as long as you are not allowing her to cry nonstop in order to achieve that goal. You won't break the child's spirit by training him to sleep in another bed or another room, but you WILL break his spirit if you ignore his needs when he cries. (Why else does the kid stop crying altogether after a few nights? He loses hope and accepts that his otherwise loving mother chooses not to care for him between 7 PM and 7 AM, so there's no point in calling her.

mummiedearest

Thu, Nov 06 2008, 7:48 pm

gamzu, I beg to differ. some kids need to learn to self soothe. for a kid who screams in exhaustion night after night and won't sleep even if you try everything to help them, crying is not indicating a need other than sleep. and putting them down in a safe place associated with sleep and allowing them to finish crying helps them. they stop crying after a few nights because they associate the crib with sleep and because they learn to soothe themselves to sleep. NO PARENT who does this is choosing to ignore the child's needs, it is strictly for the child's own benefit. you have no idea how much happier my daughter is since we did this. she is so playful and sociable, and barely whines during the day. it used to be whine whine whine nonstop because she was so exhausted.

Tamiri

Fri, Nov 07 2008, 12:49 am

Ruchel wrote:

I hope mothers who sacrifice everything will still deal with it well in 15, 20 years.

I'm still dealing Ruchel!

It's not abuse to let a baby cio. It all depends on circumstances, of course. But baby also needs to learn that he is not an extension of Imma. I am the one who doesn't leave the baby for a second, for at least 6 months. But when it gets to be too much for me to have them sleeping with me every night, all night: the solution is to put them in their own bed. Which they don't like. But, as I wrote, they learn that at night, their place is in bed.
None of my kids suffers in any way, shape or form from lack of contact with me. If anything, one might think there is "too much", cause I am home for them. The crying didn't leave any indelible marks. They are all good sleepers, who go to bed nicely and stay there. Even the 23 year old. I do think mothering is a nice thing, it's what I do. But I draw the limit at giving over my WHOLE life, including nights, to them.

GAMZu

Fri, Nov 07 2008, 1:08 am

Quote:

for a kid who screams in exhaustion night after night and won't sleep even if you try everything to help them, crying is not indicating a need other than sleep.

I can see how, when a child is so riled up and hysterical because of exhaustion that anything you do only makes the kid more hysterical, letting him cry out the energy is the only way to go.

Personally, (you can disagree because this is a personal opinion Wink

) if something like this happens once or twice, I'd try to evaluate the kid's activities and schedule to see if a change might be in order to prevent overtired meltdowns. And if nothing works, this might be the only way. Not because you are trying to teach the kid. But because there is no other way he'd sleep at that point.

Ruchel

Fri, Nov 07 2008, 7:42 am

Quote:

What exactly do you want your baby to "cry out?"

Will a child not yet at the age of understanding (halachically under age one) understand that he or she is being put in his crib to "cry out his need for sleep?" I shrug my shoulders in response.

Maybe not everyone would agree that this is a good comparison but, would you let your baby "cry it out" when he's hungry? When he's thirsty? When he needs attention?

What a child WILL cry out, (credit due to Dr. Sears for this point) is his surety that when he is in pain or discomfort, his parents will always react and respond to his needs. Is this what you want your baby to "cry out"?

while I think letting a baby cry is the last solution, people who do it are waaaay past "witty" play on words...

Ruchel

Fri, Nov 07 2008, 7:46 am

Quote:

Ruchel, we're not discussing co-sleeping or room sharing. Personally, I found those 2 methods great alternatives for CIO.

maybe the problem is that things are presented as either CIO or this. Most women I can think of won't be able to handle this. So I wanted to point there are BH other solutions.

Quote:

So sure, have your baby sleep anywhere you want, as long as you are not allowing her to cry nonstop in order to achieve that goal.

Totally, it's the laaaaast resort.

Quote:

7 PM and 7 AM

I doubt many women do it for such a long time. They're just begging for like 6 hours to be able to function.
Anyway I will agree that if the causes the child to not call when he really needs something (drink, food, nightmare, scary, etc, as opposed to play during the night), then the process has been done too harshly.

BeershevaBubby

Fri, Nov 07 2008, 8:20 am

baschabad wrote:

mummiedearest

Fri, Nov 07 2008, 9:18 am

GAMZu wrote:

Quote:

for a kid who screams in exhaustion night after night and won't sleep even if you try everything to help them, crying is not indicating a need other than sleep.

gamzu, once they get into the pattern of not sleeping (btw, with my daughter it was a result of nursing on demand, but that's a topic of a different thread) and being constantly exhausted, the cycle has to be thoroughly broken. after months of trying other things, this worked for me. I did it with my son at an earlier age, and he would cry for a few minutes in the beginning.

I would like to point out that I have a two-year-old and he NEVER needs to come into bed with me during the night. he SLEEPS. so it works nicely for me. and my kids have a fairly easy time adjusting to sleeping in new places because they know how to self-soothe and don't need to be in their own rooms.

that being said, I agree that we should probably cut the pros and cons discussions from this thread, it's going to turn into an incredibly heated debate now that the political discussions are over. Smile

GAMZu

Fri, Nov 07 2008, 9:18 am

Quote:

So you mean they let the kid cry when they put her in the crib at 7 AM but go in to comfort her when she cries at 1 AM? Nooot quite.

To those who do CIO, am I wrong in my statement that you don't go in to the kids from the time you put them in until it's time to wake up?

Ruchel

Fri, Nov 07 2008, 9:23 am

GAMZu wrote:

Quote:

then it's safe to say I'm against CIO.
I've let dd cry for a few minutes alone, or as much as she needed when she needed to unwind, but with me there, and I QUITE go when she cries at 1, 2, 3, 5... am.

Ruchel

Fri, Nov 07 2008, 9:25 am

Quote:

my kids have a fairly easy time adjusting to sleeping in new places

same here, she sleeps beautifully even at my grandparents, in hotels... the only problem is when we have to share the same room. She is disturbed by the noise, tv, light... and ends up going to bed at the same time than us and she's tired after that.

mummiedearest

Fri, Nov 07 2008, 9:29 am

GAMZu wrote:

Quote:

no. during the time it takes to train them you don't go in while they cry or you go in to soothe them every once in a while but leave them in the crib. obviously you make sure all their needs other than sleep are met before putting them in bed. you do it when they can go through the night without nursing/bottle. also, you start with a daytime nap and only get to night sleeping once the naps are routine for the baby, by which time the baby won't cry as long because s/he understands what's happening. obviously if you smell a dirty diaper you go and change it. what else can they need? they've been fed, burped, changed, sung to, you name it. so now it's sleep time.

GAMZu

Fri, Nov 07 2008, 9:32 am

myfriends715 wrote:

is it just me or did the OP just ask if it was too early and not ask for a discussion of the rights/ wrongs of CIO.. every parent has to do whats right for their family.. END OF DISCUSSION!

She did ask if it was too early, and people gave their different opinions. As in- some said they do it with newborns shock

some said they do it after a year when the kid can understand what you want from them, and some said they don't do it at all, but rather other methods of sleep training.

Unless the OP said specifically that she decided to do CIO and does not want any discussions about that- her only question is whether she can start at 9 months or 10, 11, 12... but she didn't, so why can't people say what they think on the topic?

(When you say you did CIO, you are not implying that I should have done the same. And when I say I used other methods because I feel CIO is wrong, I an not either implying that you should have done the same.) Smile

GAMZu

Fri, Nov 07 2008, 9:55 am

Quote:

the only problem is when we have to share the same room. She is disturbed by the noise, tv, light... and ends up going to bed at the same time than us and she's tired after that.

Maybe you should get her used to a bit of light/noise Wink

What I'd do is turn everything off until she's asleep, and then do quiet activities with a soft light on.
(For the record, if I need to choose my kids' clothes for the next day, I turn on the light even though they are sleeping. it's only 2 minutes and doesn't bother them.

Ruchel

Fri, Nov 07 2008, 10:01 am

GAMZu wrote:

Quote:

the only problem is when we have to share the same room. She is disturbed by the noise, tv, light... and ends up going to bed at the same time than us and she's tired after that.

Maybe you should get her used to a bit of light/noise Wink

lol!!

she doesn't mind noise out of her room, or even the door ajar after she falls asleep... but hotel rooms can be really not big especially in big cities, and if her bed is just next the tv or something... oy, no way.
As a newborn she would sleep EVERYWHERE and all the time, much easier!! lol

She goes to bed a lot earlier than us (esp. on vacation we can stay up until like 2 am), and I really think it would be annoying to not enjoy the evening fully. This week end we're renting an "apartment hotel" and see if it's worth it (since there's a kitchen but we won't use it). She will have her own place, so will we. We'll see.

Beauty and the Beast

Fri, Nov 07 2008, 11:38 am

The problem with this particular thread is those who are against CIO really don't seem to have a clue as to what it's really about.

It's not about if a child is sick, in pain, hungry or dirty.

It is about a child who has gotten into a pattern of falling asleep that is no longer workable for the parents and needs to be trained into an alternative method.

Since most of the previous patterns tend to involve Mommy and/or the breast, the child will be confused and angry and will vocalize it the only way he knows how.[/quote

100% agree.
It sounds like the mothers against CIO have no clue as to what goes on, and only focuz on the crying part of the process.

Gamzu, you stated that every baby cries for a reason.
sometimes babies cry out of tiredness, and it is a form of winding down. I have seen this from day one with DD.
CIO shows babies, mommy is here, she keeps checking up on you, but she is not picking you up, or feeding you more, because you really need your sleep.
and as for OP question, yes 9 months is fine, altho I start earlier, like 6 months.
my kids are well loved kids, they know I am there for them. They are happy and well adjusted. I think a mother has to do what works for her as a mother, and a person.