Crying it out at nine months?

chavs

Sat, Nov 08 2008, 12:52 pm

ds is 3 and asks to go to sleep when he feels tired, he can also seleep in different environments, and only ever wake up these days if he is thirsty.
We never let him cry, and no I didnt co-sleep with him. It is possible to get a good nights sleep and not do cio.
He generally sleep in his own bed but is welcome to sleep with us, and on the majority sleep in his own bed.
When people say they tried everything does that mean, that they tried for more then a week? b/c it takes a while to establish a good sleeping routine, and doesnt get done in a day unless perhaps, you do cio in which case apparently it works fast, but as can be read above I am not a fan and think that as a parent sometimes you do things thsat arent fun for you but longtime everyone benefit.
When one becomes a parent doing things that arent fun or that are inconvenient is part and parcel. I am not saying anyone needs to co-sleep, but that your decisions arent only based on what is good for you or convenient for you but also that you put yourself in your babys shoes and think about why they stop crying after a while or what they might feel when they cry. This might involve thoughts on your behalf , like why do people cry? how would you feel if you couldnt do anythingofr yourself and you were left to cry and the people you count on and trust dont come

greentiger

Sat, Nov 08 2008, 2:29 pm

GAMZu wrote:

Quote:

I doubt many women do it for such a long time. They're just begging for like 6 hours to be able to function.
Anyway I will agree that if the causes the child to not call when he really needs something (drink, food, nightmare, scary, etc, as opposed to play during the night), then the process has been done too harshly.

So you mean they let the kid cry when they put her in the crib at 7 AM but go in to comfort her when she cries at 1 AM? Nooot quite.

To those who do CIO, am I wrong in my statement that you don't go in to the kids from the time you put them in until it's time to wake up?

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
cio and training a kid to sleep through the night are two differnt things, although the cio method is often used to train kids to sleep through the night.

I started with cio becuase as others pointed out, I want my (10 month) daughter to be able to self sooth and not be completely reliant on me when it comes to falling asleep. She usually falls asleep within the first 5 minutes. She wakes up once or twice during the night and ends in my bed (usually some time around 3 am). I do hope at some point to get her to sleep in her own crib the whole night but until I am completely comfortable knowing she is not hungry and she gets more comfortable in her crib I am not going to push it. I feel that nursing her to sleep up till now, while was great for other reasons, really is the cause of her having a hard time falling asleep on her own now and I haven't come up with an ideal soloution of what would be the best way to train a child.

GAMZu

Sat, Nov 08 2008, 8:09 pm

Quote:

sometimes babies cry out of tiredness, and it is a form of winding down. I have seen this from day one with DD.
CIO shows babies, mommy is here, she keeps checking up on you, but she is not picking you up, or feeding you more, because you really need your sleep.

You know, I just remembered that my 2nd son was like that as a newborn. When he was ready to sleep, he'd start crying. Naturally, I'd do the list- diaper, nurse, burp... He's refuse to nurse, I thought he had stomach pain and would rock him/massage his stomach.
Soon enough I realized that when he cries from tiredness, he wants nothing else but to be put down. I never heard of such a thing before. So I'd put him down, sit on my hands, and within 5 minutes his cries died down and he was asleep.

Actually, he outgrew it, and by a few months old he was nursing himself to sleep.

BUT---
if this is really true for a child (and I can't imagine it being so widespread) the mother would realize this very soon and would NOT need to ask if it's too early to start or whatever. Once you are asking or thinking about when to start, it means it's not the child's personality but the mother's choice.

I remember someone telling me that she's so annoyed because her bungalow is next to this family's who has 6 month old twins, and this summer they will be sleep training them, and she doesn't expect to get any sleep the whole summer.

I was horrified!! If it's indeed true, that some kids NEED it to wind down, it would only last under 10 minutes and not for hours all night every night.
And if the neighbors won't be getting any sleep, guess who else won't be???
THE KIDS!! So it's for the kids' benefit, eh?

mummiedearest

Sat, Nov 08 2008, 8:19 pm

chavs wrote:

When people say they tried everything does that mean, that they tried for more then a week? b/c it takes a while to establish a good sleeping routine, and doesnt get done in a day unless perhaps, you do cio in which case apparently it works fast, but as can be read above I am not a fan and think that as a parent sometimes you do things thsat arent fun for you but longtime everyone benefit.
When one becomes a parent doing things that arent fun or that are inconvenient is part and parcel. I am not saying anyone needs to co-sleep, but that your decisions arent only based on what is good for you or convenient for you but also that you put yourself in your babys shoes and think about why they stop crying after a while or what they might feel when they cry. This might involve thoughts on your behalf , like why do people cry? how would you feel if you couldnt do anythingofr yourself and you were left to cry and the people you count on and trust dont come

actually, the cio process usually takes one to two weeks. trust me, it is hell. you think the parents who do it are unfeeling? wow. I couldn't talk for two weeks, I growled. that's how much it affected me. but in the long run it works. and I knew it was best for my baby. I waited ten months to do it and was at my wits' end.

guess what, babies learn positive things from the experience. how is it any better to try to soothe the kid for hours on end when the baby is just getting more and more frustrated that mommy can't help?

I found your post incredibly offensive. you really think the parents who choose to let their kids cry it out are doing it strictly because they're lazy/unfeeling and just can't deal with their child? sister, you've got it WRONG.

mummiedearest

Sat, Nov 08 2008, 8:29 pm

GAMZu wrote:

Quote:

no, some mothers don't realize it. take me for example. my kids are 14 months apart. I was so overwhelmed the first few months that I acted as a pacifier. this meant that my baby needed to nurse to fall asleep, only as soon as I took her off she'd wake up for more. at some point I realized that my sanity was important and that the nursing to sleep thing wasn't working ANYWAY. even if she didn't wake up after being unlatched, she'd wake up as soon as she touched the crib mattress. and I'd have to let her cry. it was not my personality (though it is something I have no issue doing) it was an established need. she still cries for a few minutes sometimes to fall asleep.

as for sleeping through the night, it turns out it was my constant nursing that prevented her from doing so. it was a habit. she would comfort nurse for a half hour at a time at night. she obviously wasn't doing it for the food, and the next day she'd be cranky and refuse to nap. the same with screaming. it's not because they need mommy, it's cause they're used to being picked up. it's a habit. crying it out is breaking them of the habit to a certain extent. everytime my daughter is sick we have to let her scream for a few nights afterwards because she gets picked up if she's sick. it becomes a habit. and it is for their own benefit to let them scream, eventually they get the hint and go to sleep, but if you pick them up it enforces the habit. which is of no benefit to anyone. the whole family benefits when everyone gets a good night's sleep. and if it takes two weeks of screaming, too bad. for some people it is a necessity.

chavs

Sun, Nov 09 2008, 6:46 am

I never said that you (pl) are lazy or unfeeling, but I do think that there are other options and when someone says they tried everything, does that mean that they bought a specific book, followed through with everything it said to do and continued for a few weeks with few results but continued and then reaped the benefits?
It seems that a lot of people chose cio because they felt very sleep deprived and were desperate, and that it took a few weeks or less only until their baby slept through. From what I understand, a specific time was used intially to let the baby cry and slowly that was made longer, 5 min, then 10 min, then 15 min etc until the baby stopped crying. I do think it takes less effort to cio then to follow through with something that reqires more then telling yourself "I am doing this for dd's sake" and "I must close my ears"
for example, getting your child to the verge of sleeping, putting them in their crib when they arent yet asleep, and continue to pat them or rub their back, while going sh, sh, sh, until the baby is asleep, unless of course the baby wakes up (eyes pop open) when are put in the crib and they dont fall back asleep with patting and shushing, or they start crying, you then have to pick them back up and start the procces again until baby is alsmost asleep, then crib again etc etc, until they fall asleep in the crib, and each time it can take and hour to get baby to sleep. Furthermore you dont see any real results for quite a while, as in after a week instead of it taking an hour for them to finally sleep it takes 50 minutes. Another point is that you also have to put effort in in other areas, like watch for signs that your baby is tired, make a 3 hour routine (flexible its a routine and not a schedule), closter feed, dream feed, and in the beginning you cant leave the house much becaue you are focusing on getting baby to sleep.
Its hard in the beginning, but the baby ends up sleeping well, as do you, no crying involved, if baby cries the baby should be picked up right away, but they gently learn to sleep on their own, becaus ehtey keep being put back down in the crib/cot. The method is slightly different if you are dealing with an older baby, or you want your baby to get out of the habit of for example having only nursed to sleep or slept in a parents bed.

Last edited by chavs on Sun, Nov 09 2008, 6:53 am; edited 1 time in total

Marion

Sun, Nov 09 2008, 6:59 am

I never specifically did CIO, but I never really needed to either. I will lie in my bed and listen for 5 minutes. If the baby's still crying, he needs something. If he whimpered a few times but now is quiet, I leave him be. That's how I KNOW that DS#2, when he wakes to nurse, really is hungry. (That and the fact that he goes to bed remarkably early; it doesn't surprise me that by 3 he is hungry!) I will also let my child scream in his crib if I need him in a safe place (I need to use the facilities), but then I go back immediately to take him out. I have 2 boys and so far neither one seems scarred by this approach.

Oh, and sometimes it just takes them a minute to realize what we already know...that they really are tired and need to sleep. Even my 2 year old fights bedtime and cries...until his head hits the pillow and he realizes that maybe bed's not such a bad thing after all.

BeershevaBubby

Sun, Nov 09 2008, 7:12 am

chavs wrote:

I don't know but it seems to me you were being pretty judgmental and expecting a 'din v'cheshbon' as to what they tried and how long they tried it.

Tamiri

Sun, Nov 09 2008, 7:20 am

I don't agree with kow-towing to your child's crying after a certain age. If they can't learn to get themselves to sleep without crying it out, then they will have to learn it *with* crying it out, won't they? When and how will they learn they are independent beings?
For sure, if you are willing to cater to them until they are ready to let go, kudos. But a lot of us want a little bit of life back at around 6, 7 or 8 months and can't keep up the catering service. A lot of us want it even earlier.
I don't agree with "mommy to the rescue" for everything. A child needs to learn how to sleep and my experience is that cio is the only way some of them learn.
I also think that a lot of posters have a looooong way to go in parenting before they can judge the methods of others. First, show me the goods (your successfully raised children) and then - let's talk!

greentiger

Sun, Nov 09 2008, 9:04 am

Tamiri wrote:

I also wonder if those who are horrified by the idea of "not responding to your childs need" are so quick to respond to the kid's every need during the day.

I think many women in general are able to respond better to their kids needs during the day after not being woken at night so yes for some mothers the faster the method the better for all involved.

greentiger

Sun, Nov 09 2008, 9:11 am

GAMZu wrote:

myfriends715 wrote:

is it just me or did the OP just ask if it was too early and not ask for a discussion of the rights/ wrongs of CIO.. every parent has to do whats right for their family.. END OF DISCUSSION!

She did ask if it was too early, and people gave their different opinions. As in- some said they do it with newborns shock

some said they do it after a year when the kid can understand what you want from them, and some said they don't do it at all, but rather other methods of sleep training.

By the way, of the two mothers I know who cio with newborns:
1. is a mother of 5. First four cio right away, but ALWAYS gets up at night to nurse the baby and put them back in bed. None of these kids have problems falling asleep on their own. With #5 she got lazy and has been co-sleeping, at over a year he still can not fall asleep on his own and needs to nurse/bottle/be rocked to sleep.
2. Sleep trained through the night within the first few weeks. This is a very energetic woman who is always running aroung but told me "I just could not get through a day calmly and normally without a full nights sleep" while this method is definatly not for me, and would not as much consider it for a second, I can see where she is coming from and understand that this is what she needed to do to function as a normal mother in the morning based on her own strenghts and weaknesses.

Seraph

Sun, Nov 09 2008, 11:51 am

Beauty and the Beast wrote:

Gamzu, you stated that every baby cries for a reason. .

It was very clear to me that my 14 month old son is VERY strong willed, and when he wants something, he'll shreik until he gets it. As evidenced by him biting the table when its in his way, by him crying hysterically if I dont give him the toy he's pointing at, etc... So yea, when he doesnt get what he wants, he's MAD and vocalizes it. What made me finally realize that I can let him cio is that I tried putting him to sleep, rocking him to sleep, and he cried bloody murder when I was holding him, rocking him, and singing to him. He wasnt crying out of abandonment, he was crying because he wanted to NURSE to sleep. (This is 5 minutes after I finished nursing him.)
When his whole life he gets things a certain way, he's protesting the change. And my strong willed baby protested for 3 hours the first night. I didnt abandon him, I went in very frequently and told him "Mommy loves you. You are tired. You need to go shluffy."
So yea he was crying. He had a reason. His reason was "I DONT LIKE THIS! I DONT WANT TO TRY A DIFFERENT WAY TO SLEEP!!!"

mummiedearest

Sun, Nov 09 2008, 11:52 am

GAMZu wrote:

Quote:

it's not because they need mommy, it's cause they're used to being picked up. it's a habit. crying it out is breaking them of the habit to a certain extent. everytime my daughter is sick we have to let her scream for a few nights afterwards because she gets picked up if she's sick. it becomes a habit.

Why do you pick her up when she is sick, if you are certain this method is the best and anything else just makes her more tired and cranky? If anything, she should be getting more rest when sick!

if she wakes up when sick, she needs tylenol. can't give her tylenol in her crib.

GAMZu

Sun, Nov 09 2008, 3:30 pm

mummiedearest wrote:

GAMZu wrote:

Quote:

Why do you pick her up when she is sick, if you are certain this method is the best and anything else just makes her more tired and cranky? If anything, she should be getting more rest when sick!

if she wakes up when sick, she needs tylenol. can't give her tylenol in her crib.

Why? I don't get it.