sem girls and helping

hindas

Mon, Feb 16 2009, 3:26 pm

Sorry to post two topics.
I also regualrly have sem girls to stay with me.for shabbat.
Do you think that they should offer to help at all over shabbat, and if they dont- how does one educate them?

Aidelmom

Mon, Feb 16 2009, 3:31 pm

"Could you do me a favor and take some dishes to the kitchen?"

"Would you mind helping me do exz?"

I think they should offer especially if they're staying the whole shabbos.

HindaRochel

Mon, Feb 16 2009, 3:55 pm

To me a guest is a guest; one is suppose to do for them not ask them or expect anything (gift, help etc.) other than basic consideration (not making noise after the family has gone to bed/before they rise, tidying up after oneself in the bathroom or room where one is sleeping, being pleasant etc.

HOWEVER, it is proper guest behavior to offer to help.

So, imho, take that as you will, while you can hope a guest (male or female) will offer to help, it isn't your job to educate them to help.

HOWEVER, since they are regulars, then asking them to help you a bit isn't out of bounds and may actually make them feel more comfortable. (They are family now kind of thing.) I would keep it to really light work though, not dishes, but maybe clearing the table or grabbing the salad to bring out and such. Maybe, if they have become close to the kids, doing something with the little ones for a little while, about 1/2 hour at the most.

hindas

Mon, Feb 16 2009, 4:08 pm

So how about when I had 5 girls staying over a chag, cos 2 of my regulars asked to bring friends. And they didnt bring anything or help at all????????
Still no expecttations.

MAybe its cos im british Wink

HindaRochel

Mon, Feb 16 2009, 4:12 pm

It is rude on their part, but your choice as a hostess is really whether you invite them or not (as long as they are really not doing anything dangerous, immoral or destructive. You can ask them not to make noise after 9 for instance because the children need their sleep.)

shlomitsmum

Mon, Feb 16 2009, 4:17 pm

hindas wrote:

5 girls! no help.... not nice! shock

that number is imposing..set a limit of people ... and when your regulars ask tell them that It would be nice to get some help or just ask them directly ,you are not a maid and if you are the only one serving,cleaning etc is just not dignified....

hindas

Mon, Feb 16 2009, 4:17 pm

yes, I thought about talking to the head of the sem, but then I thought that would really not be nice and would get them into trouble, dont want to do that.
tsnius with them was also an issue, and I was naive cos it was the first time I had sem girls.
Now I am wiser and I know to make rules in my house that even guests have to keep.
For example Pj's are o.k. but must have a skirt on top, cos I have a 13 yr old girl that im trying to raise., plus 2 teengae boys!

appreciate your responses! Very Happy

RightOnTarget

Mon, Feb 16 2009, 4:37 pm

It's ur house and you need to set the rules. Explain your expectations beforehand.

I'd love to have your friends over too but I'd really need you to give me a hand.

Good Luck

Mrs.K

Mon, Feb 16 2009, 4:49 pm

I think it's very important that you call the school. Don't say your name and don't say any of the girl's names, but the principal should gather the entire student body together to discuss the importance of manners and middos. Better they become educated in this now then after they're married.

sister

Mon, Feb 16 2009, 5:15 pm

I think it is a major problem with people who are in Israel for the year(sem, yeshiva) who want to see the country and sometimes wind up taking advantage of hachnosas orchim

this past week I was so upset I had a group of single girls for dinner, they showed up an hour and a half late, (I actually thought they just decided to not come and removed half the food from the table so I could save it for the next day) when they finally waltzed in their were no apologies, just one of them telling me that she was severly allergic to nuts... I had to go in to the kitchen to make her seperate food... throughout the whole meal she kept on asking me in a very rude way are you sure this does not have nuts?????!

then she fell asleep at the table.....

whatever the list goes on

what you are discussing is a problem

Isramom8

Mon, Feb 16 2009, 5:28 pm

Most unusual for us, we just had 7 girls from 3 different Yerushalayim seminaries for Shabbos. They set the table, cleared a little, took the baby to the park, and after being woken up once by me in the morning, finished davening just a little while after we had said we wanted to start lunch. They also sang while the men were at shul. They held conversations with me and my children, took down names for Tehillim, tidied up after Shabbos and wrote us a nice goodbye note. Lovely girls. I want to email their parents.

Is it that people expect more, or that I just got great girls?

sister

Mon, Feb 16 2009, 6:19 pm

sister wrote:

amother

Mon, Feb 16 2009, 7:18 pm

Hindas, maybe you need to take a break from hosting for a week. It seems (rightfully so) that you are a beginning to get really annoyed by some (most?) of your guests and I think it may be a good idea. IMO, there is no point in hosting if you are going to be resentful.

Having guests-especially sleepover- who do not help and show no appreciation is just frustrating.

amother

Mon, Feb 16 2009, 7:23 pm

hindas wrote:

For example Pj's are o.k. but must have a skirt on top, cos I have a 13 yr old girl that im trying to raise., plus 2 teengae boys!

In this case, are you quite sure that it's appropriate that you're hosting girls at all, and especially for an overnight stay?

queen

Mon, Feb 16 2009, 7:28 pm

Aidelmom wrote:

"Could you do me a favor and take some dishes to the kitchen?"

"Would you mind helping me do exz?"

I think they should offer especially if they're staying the whole shabbos.

I'd definitely say something along those lines!

greenfire

Mon, Feb 16 2009, 8:06 pm

sorry it sounds horrible ... I could see having a moment ... but never to help and to impose more girls ...

I definitely would ask for some help ... definitely mention as a general issue to hanhala to speak to all the girls regarding mentshlichkeit ... and I might say no a few times ...

shoy18

Mon, Feb 16 2009, 8:20 pm

I have a funny story about when I was in sem staying by someone for shabbos. We were in our room getting ready for shabbos and their was a knock on the door, when we opened it it was our host and she simply handed us the baby with not a word and walked away. which was obvious that she wanted us to watch it which at that point we didn't even know if it was a boy or a girl. It was the strangest thing I ever encountered, should we have offered to help, maybe, but what she did was probably unacceptable.

OOTBubby

Mon, Feb 16 2009, 8:56 pm

My DD is a teacher in several Israeli BY seminaries. She regularly has her students for Shabbos (meals and/or sleeping). They always help out and sometimes become like part of the family. In fact this year, the menaheles came to my DD and told her that one of the girls that had been by her over Sukkos had asked if she could go to my daughter to do chesed (as her regularly seminary obligation). Despite my daughter's large, busy household, she hadn't had chesed girl previously. She asked the menaheles how should she take it: does it mean the girls thinks our family is such a nebach case that we desperately need her help; or should we be flattered that she likes the family and wants to come? The menaheles assured my daughter that it was the second case and this girl has become a regular in their household and was indispensable when DD had a premie who a month after eventually coming home was hospitalized again for several weeks.

ruth

Tue, Feb 17 2009, 12:11 am

It seems to me that one of the purposes of setting up the girls with hachnasat orchim is so that they do experience & learn by helping a family. Seminary girls are "wives & mothers" in training.

this isn't stam hospitality. I agree with the posters who suggested speaking with the eim habayit/menachelet. This is a serious issue of chinuch and derech eretz. To love a fellow Jew is to give tochacha. Of course most of us don't know how to give it -- or receive it -- properly. Thus, the need to speak with the menachelet.

btw, I believe that it is assur for a guest to bring additional guests -- unless specific permission is given. My dh says it is even assur to ask permission.