Do you know where your son in yeshiva is?

jerusalem-girl

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 12:50 am

I write this with pain, not with any political agenda.
Some of you may know about the protests that are going on in Yerushalayim about the parking lot that is open on shabbos. What you may not know, and what you must know if your son is learning in the Holy Land, is what is happening on the streets.
On Shabbos the Eidah Chareidis had a kabbolas shabbos on Bar Ilan to protest the chillul shabbos.
On the Thursday before that, the garbage bin outside my house was torched at about 7:30. The bochrim who set it on fire, and a crowd of close to 100, sang 'bar yochai' for a few minutes, and then left, the fun was over. While this clearly had nothing to do with shabbos, after all, the mayor does not live on my street, and was an act of destruction, I had to live with the smoke for the next several hours. The bochrim had their fun, but we, who live on the block were inhaling black smoke, and couldn’t call the fire dept. because it is a ‘chillul hashem‘. I saw a man of about 60 going back and forth with his little girl, carrying pails of water to extinguish the flames. (He had to walk half a block and go up steps, refill water, come back…) He did this, at least for two hours. There are those that burn, and those that are left to put out the flames.
We did our best to help, but when we thought the fire was out, 3 hours after it started, a spark caught again and the whole bin was in flames again. I called my rebbitzin and got permission to call the fire department. I woke up the next morning with pain in my heart and a scratchy throat, that is all. My rebbitzin told me of men and women who had to be hospitalized because they’re allergic to smoke or because of excessive smoke inhalation. I got off lucky.
On Sunday, I was walking to my sister who lives on a quiet street. Two garbage bins were burning on her street, and a group of about 15 bochrim stood around, some threw in garbage, the other just laughed and cheered. Again, the rabbonim organized a mechoa on Shabbos, not on Sunday. And they said, even when they asked people to come to the protests, that one shouldn’t burn garbage.
Last night, Monday, I heard screaming and yelling from the street. I washed my dishes. At one point, at about 10:30, I heard something heavy being dragged. I looked out and saw a group of bochrim rolling out the garbage bin from our street, to the kikar a block away. Smoke was already rising at the kikar, from other garbage bins apparently. Other bochrim were rolling more garbage bins from other blocks, some of them metal, some plastic. It stabbed my heart, I was just standing there and shaking. I watched two bochrim carrying cardboard to kindle the flames. Like many of the rest, they were wearing hats and jackets and like a very large percentage, they were speaking English. My husband yelled down to one of them, ‘what are you doing here?’ They laughed. A bochur that lives next door to us pleaded with the ones that were pulling out our garbage. They ignored him.
For the next few hours, we kept hearing animalistic screaming from the street. We decided, my husband and I, that we couldn’t do anything anyways so we would just remain inside. We went to bed with difficulty. Just as the sounds would peter out, we heard inhuman screaming again. We heard things being thrown, and metal clattering against the street. I would later see that these brave warriors were pulling barricades that protect pedestrians on the narrow sidewalks, out of the cement.
At about 1:30, I was still unable to fall asleep. Suddenly our air-conditioner, which was on to block out the noise of the street, not to keep us cool, went off and our apartment went dark. It turns out that the electricity of the entire area, including even the street lamps, was blown, perhaps because of the fire. The screaming on the street increased. I got dressed and went out to the porch.
On the kikar a block away, the bochrim were very proud that they blew the electricity of all the families living in what I believe was a two to three block radius. After a few minutes of triumphant screaming, they began singing to the tune of Carlebach, ‘Ani avdecha ben amasecha…”
The irony was so painful, I cried loudly, on the porch. My husband, satmar geshtimt, chassid of the Eidah, didn’t try to stop me.
I could go on. There were horrible sights and sounds that night, finally petering out at 2:30.
The reason I am posting, my questions are:

1)What were these bochrim thinking??

2) Where was the tzelem elokim when I heard words and sounds that should not come out of any human being’s vocal chords, especially not that of yeshivaleit? Where was the basic compassion/ thought for the neighbors? Where was any sort of restraint when barricades, which are extremely important by our narrow sidewalks for safety, were wrenched out with a lot of effort? How did they have the heart to watch a small old man carrying his garbage three blocks away because that was the first place the bin was still there?

3)R’ Avraham Yehoshua of Brisk said this week when one of his bochrim were arrested, “vos tut a bochur bei a mechoa?”-what is a bochur doing by a protest? (He was talking about a real mechoa, organized by the gedolim, and he is no Zionist.)What indeed? Even if he is ‘just’ watching, why risk arrest, make a great chillul hashem, be mechazek those that are being mazik, if he doesn’t have to ? If he cares about shabbos, how about being mekabel shabbos early, as we have began doing, for Yerusahalayim? None of the rabbonim said bochrim should go, and in general, all men should not go unless told to do so by their morah d’asra. There is too much of your own humanity at risk.

4) Where are you parents? Let me ask that again. Where are you parents? Do you realize the implication of no supervision in your son’s yeshiva? A choshuve bochur next door, the one who tried to stop the garbage bin from being rolled out, told my husband this morning, “Who’s in charge that I make it to shachris on time? I slept late because of what happened here, who’s worrying that I daven?” Do you realize your sons could be mazik tens of people and no one will do anything? Do you realize that if your sons drink or smoke or watch inappropriate videos, or meet with the other gender, (We have bochrim over for shabbos seudos and there are a lot of bochrim diros in our neighborhood. Believe me, I‘ve seen too much.) no one is stopping them? This is a much broader issue than just what happened last night. Do you know what your sons are doing? I know he is the best boy in the universe, but who’s to say he doesn’t have unfiltered internet in his dirah? Who is to say he didn’t get caught up with a crowd and that he didn’t scream like a maniac in middle of a city, in middle of the night? Who is to say that he didn’t join a group of likewise English speakers, to do the holy act of pulling out barricades from the sidewalk? Who is to say that he makes it on time for shachris? Who is accountable for him? He himself?- “Al taamin b’atzmecha” these bochrim need higher supervision.

We decided we’re going to do something. My husband is coming home late for lunch because he is meeting with the mashgiach of Mir and Chevron. I am calling the Gaved of the Eidah, with the blessings of my Rebbe, and going to post what I saw wherever I can.
I didn’t take pictures last night, because I was so disgusted. It’s like an embarrassing episode that you’d rather erase from your mind. Now I regret it, I would have shown the pictures to the mashgichim of these yeshivos, shown them what their bochrim were doing. If five bochrim were kicked out of yeshiva, I bet all of these shenanigans would stop immediately.
Please don’t respond with stories about shabbos and pride marches and the gedolim of previous generations. This has got nothing to do with it.
If you’re a mother, know where your son is. If you’re a friend, make sure you never justify the unjustifiable. If you’re a fellow Jew, daven for these bochrim, but never commend their actions. Daven for peace in Yerushalayim, and never stand up for those who value fun (Midnight Mir party! I heard one of the bochrim scream last night) over self respect, over basic mentschlichkeit, over Kiddush HaShem.
Sha’alu Shalom Yerushalayim.

grin

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 1:04 am

it's an unfortunate fact of life here that one must scream and shout in unbecoming ways to be heard, but that still doesn't allow for torching, destroying property and gezel sheina.

HooRYou

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 1:07 am

thank you for posting and let us know if you are given any practical aitzos on what we can do.

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 1:15 am

THANK YOU for posting that!!!

IY"H

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 1:34 am

please let us know what happens with the meetings w/ the mashgichim

shalhevet

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 1:37 am

Thank you.

I agree this has nothing to do with the official davenning 'demonstrations' called by the gedolim (which of course I support).

Your post made me very sad, but shkoyach for posting it.

hadasa

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 1:50 am

Yes, thank you for posting. It was rather horrifying to read, but it is important that people be informed that things like this occur.

jerusalem-girl

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 2:18 am

HooRYou wrote:

thank you for posting and let us know if you are given any practical aitzos on what we can do.

I'm doing my best. Here's what I came up with:
Specifically for this issue:
1) Bochrim should be told, by parents, magidei shiur, mashpiim, etc. Protests of any kind are not for them. My Rebbe does not let anyone, bochur or yungerleit go. Most rabbonim do not encourage the attendance of youth and bochrim.
A friend of my husband told him that his father warned him, "I'm not bailing you out." More parents have to realize what an issue it is. The newspapers tend to tell stories of police brutality, which I do not deny but haven't seen, and not of hot-headed savagery.
2)Kiddush Hashem and Tzelem Elokim, two topics that must be stressed more. If your mother never let you drop a candy wrapper on the floor, even in your own house, or asked you not to take up the whole street when you were walking with your friends, then she has taught you to be a mentsch and to make a kiddush hashem, even amongst your own peers. You won't then shock yourselves and others with large-scale disgusting behaviour. You won't be able to throw a dirty diaper if you were trained to pick up a paper that slipped out of your hand.
3) Daven that this will all be resolved peacefully. When I said "Atah Chonen L'Adam Da'as" I had in mind the bochrim who were obviously not thinking, and at the same time, my husband. He planned on making last night an early night, but got very little sleep due to what happened, and I hope he is learning well. I also hope that all the bochrim and yungerleit in this neighborhood who didn't participate, but did lose sleep, are not losing out in their Torah learning. "Hashiveinu Avinu"-we need some teshuva amongst ourselves, just as the chilonim need. "V' L'yerushalyim Irecha"-speedily in our days."Av Harachamim" -I'm not handling this!

In general, bochrim in E"Y.
1) Bochrim are not fully developed human beings. My father was fond of saying, Q. What million questions can you ask that all have the same one word answer? A. bochur.
It's more true than you might think at first glance. In general, people need supervision. A community serves as supervision by having a geder called, busha, you're embarrassed to behave in certain ways. Married men have supervision, their wives. Only bochrim in a different city are so entirely unsupervised. I heard of an organization that keeps an eye on bochrim and seminary girls in E"Y. I think you have to pay them. I'm going to try to find out more about them. In any case, a close friend (of the parents, not the bochrim) can be asked to keep an eye, or a relative, such as an uncle, a mashpia...
2) Parents-ask pointed questions. Don't just ask how your sons week was. Ask, "Did you make it in time for shachris in Yeshiva every day this week? Why not? What did you learn? What did you do after night seder? Were you at a protest? Where did you eat this shabbos? Is there anyone in your dirah with internet enabled cell phones? Do any of your friends have laptops to type shiurim? Do they have good filters?"
You're paying for the tuition of yeshiva, the plane flights, the rent (which is exorbitant.), the credit card bills. You're the parent. Make sure that your son is doing it your way. If not, cut off the money line.
3) Check credit card bills. I read a story (Jewish Observer?) about a father who noticed a weekly charge, Thursdays in a certain store. Turns out that a few bochrim partied every Thursday night with some shabbos food, which gradually came to include wine and spirits. By the time it was caught, several of the bochrim had serious drinking problems.
4) Lock him up Thursday night. I mean that seriously. Most yeshivas are not in on Friday so Thursday night is party night. You should see what goes on on the streets. Have your son join a very serious, preferably married and choshuv, chavrusa for Thursday nights. Or have him do chessed for your brother with 23 kids. Or stuff envelopes for Vaad Harabbonim. Or have him say the whole tehillim forty times for your single friend at the Kosel. Whatever it is, no one should be on the streets Thursday nights. It's a churban.
5)If your son is not in yeshiva in E"Y yet, consider sending him to a small, supervised yeshiva. Most chassidishe yeshivos in E"Y don't let the bochrim budge. I saw very few chassidishe bochrim last night and in general. There are also litvishe yeshivas in small Moshavim or even cities like Beitar and Ramot, where what happens in Yerushalayim wouldn't happen there. In the states, there are plenty of yeshivos like Patterson, etc. that are entirely supervised. Coming to E"Y is nice, and I'm all for it, but if the choice is a small yeshiva in New Jersey or the Mir in Yerushalayim, I wouldn't choose the Mir.
6)Daven

These are what I came up with. I'm sure there is more to do. We are trying and tell me if you have any ideas of your own.

jerusalem-girl

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 2:26 am

I forgot to mention, if you see something, say something.( Hope NYC police won't sue me for plagiarism.)
Bochrim should not feel that it's lashon harah to tell the mashgiach (if there is one) if something is not right. It's l'toeles and you could be saving this bochur's spiritual life. As long as you follow the rules, no exxagerating, it doesn't give you pleasure, telling the right person, etc., you are doing the bochur and anyone that could learn from his ways a great service.
I'yh, I will keep you posted as to what the mashgichim say.

shabri

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 4:08 am

Thanks for writing this. I too have been horrified by what has been going on here in Yerushalaim this week. I can't take my kids to certain areas b/c I'm afraid of what might happen.

ChossidMom

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 4:53 am

Wow. What a painful post to read. Thank you for posting this and making us aware of what is going on.
I read your subsequent posts as well and I seriously think that you should submit your writings to a newspaper or magazine like Hamodia or Mishpacha. More than the women on imamother should see these heartfelt and well written posts. Please get it published!!!

jerusalem-girl

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 6:30 am

ChossidMom wrote:

I'm going to try, but many of these magazines/ papers are very scared to bring up such topics. I thought perhaps to write a fictional story. That would bring across the theme, but wouldn't show parents just how much American bochrim are involved. Tell me if you have any idea how I could write something that could reach a broader audience. The only thing I could think of, is getting some serious haskamahs before I even bother submitting.
On your part, anyone that reads this post, should please pass on the word/ e-mail this forum to women who have sons in Eretz Yisrael.
I always thought that the garbage burnings and rock throwings were by Meah Shearim type bochrim. I didn't realize, and most American parents don't realize, just how many foreigners and not chassidish bochrim have to do with it. Parents should ban all protests of any kind, unless the yeshiva itself sends out the bochrim, which never happens. If a father is in E"Y himself, he could go with his son, but allowing bochrim to go unsupervised is not healthy and you never know where it is going to lead. For every one protest organized by the rabbonim, there are weeks of torchings, hefkeirus, vandalism that has got nothing to do with the issue.
Another thing you could do, is frown upon anyone that goes, even for 'just two minutes.' My husband gave mussar to his chavrusah who said he watched for a few minutes only. "Why would you be mechazek these bochrim by giving them more attention?" he asked.

frumluv

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 6:57 am

Thanks for sharing. I've heard about these protest where things were burning. Very scary for it to be so close to home.

stem

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 7:43 am

I just want to make sure people don't assume that all Mir bochurim are out partying all night Thursday nights. Actually, Thursday nights are Mishmar and many many bochurim stay up learning in the bais medrash all night and daven early before having the rest of Friday to visit relatives, shop and prepare for Shabbos (and sleep).
Mir is an excellent choice for many bochurim, but I agree that there are some guys who need more supervision and should not be sent to a yeshiva with 2000-3000 students across the world.

jerusalem-girl

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 8:02 am

stem wrote:

You're right. I should not have made it sound like it was all or even a majority of Mir out on the streets. I take that back. I'm just trying to say that the bochrim should have something to do Thursday night. Mishmar is great, and those that do not do the mishmar program, should do something else. But no parents should allow their sons to do nothing the whole night.
Thanks for the clarification.

pacifier

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 8:17 am

I'd like to add, sadly, that the police should be called when people behave like that, burning garbages.... If the police is not called, those young boys are gonna grow up thinking they can do anything they like as long as they dress like bachurim, since calling the police on them might be chillul Hashem. I believe letting an old man trying to put off the fire at the risk of smoke inhalation and being hospitalized might be a bigger chillul Hashem.

jerusalem-girl

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 8:33 am

pacifier wrote:

I agree that someone has to teach these bochurim a lesson. The problem with calling police is that then the entire chareidi media and community talks about the 'police brutality' and doesn't ask what prompted it. These bochrim become tzaddikim by virtue of being arrested for 'just standing by'. Oh, and when things got really bad, and we were considering calling the police, our phones were not working due to the electrical outage. (I don't own a cell phone)
In the future, I would call my Rav and ask if we could call the police.
I agree as well that it is a huge chillul hashem, even if none of the authorities are nearby. It was a chillul hashem for me, this did not inspire me of their avodas hashem. It was a chillul hashem for my husband who never saw such savagery in his life. It was a chillul hashem for the old man that worked hours to put out the fire. It was a chillul hashem for the mother of a newborn baby across the street, who I saw helplessly watching from her porch when there was no electrcity. It was a chillul hashem, mostly, for the bochrim who participated themselves. How do you think one feels after being mazik, and keeping people up, and acting like an animal, for several hours?

shoy18

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 10:08 am

the sickest part of the situation is the mere fact that calling the police (which would be the obvious solution) just makes them heros, becasue then they can scream police brutality.. its mind boggling how no rabbanim are standing up and saying remember your suppose act with respect and not cause chillul hashem and the police should be allowed to do their job if things get out of hand, if the protests were peaceful the police should have nothing to be brutal about, but because the protesters are throwing stones and acting forcefully they have no choice but to act in the way they are (not to say that everything the police is doing is right).

louche

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 10:45 am

OT, J-lem girl, but I really would like to know why it would be a chillul hashem for you to call the fire brigade to put out a fire --and why you have to get your rebbetzin's permission. you're living in a populated area and flames anywhere could easily spread and endanger hundreds, maybe thousands of people. why is this not considered pikuach nefesh?

jerusalem-girl

Tue, Jun 30 2009, 12:44 pm

louche wrote:

It is probably not pikuach nefesh, as the walls of the buildings are stone, and usually don't catch fire. The fire dept. does not respond right away, unless the fire caught, as these fires are all over, way too often.
There is a very serious problem with smoke inhalation. I should have called the fire dept. right away, and next time, iy''h I will.
I don't understand why it is, but there are fires all over. I walked from Sanhedria to Geulah now and I was inhaling smoke throughout. I don't know what can be done about it. Do daven, please.