Thank-you notes | Imamother

Crayon210

Sun, Feb 12 2006, 1:06 pm

I've gotten such cards. They do not seem individualized, they seem dumb.

I would rather call my parents' friends, and have my husband call his parents' friends, to thank them.

queen

Sun, Feb 12 2006, 1:11 pm

Crayon210 wrote:

they seem dumb.

when not done properly, you are corrrect.

Crayon210

Sun, Feb 12 2006, 1:19 pm

I'm sorry, when I first got married and was getting to know my husband, I didn't have the time or focus to do it "correctly".

I have never gotten a thank-you note that was so great that it made it worth getting the mail that day. I was glad to know the gift was received, but would have been just as happy to get a phone call, e-mail, etc. I find it silly to get an email from someone asking for my address so they can send me a silly thank-you note.

ChavieK

Sun, Feb 12 2006, 1:55 pm

I have to say crayon that I am with motek here. How else do people know you even got the gift?I gave someone a very expensive gift (from her registry)over a year ago. Never got a note. How do I know that she got it? Now I don't know what I am supposed to do.
Also when my son had to write notes he came to ask me "who's that?" "what did they give me?"etc. The notes could have been impersonal , but we chose to introduce him to grand parents friends & his relatives this way(eg:that's cousin avraham, zaidy's brother chaim's son) For the relatives that were there we had the pictures to show him.
Although I concede that they can all sound similar who says you can't mean it each time? Does my son not enjoy each of the sfarim he got? (OK not yet but he will one day),or the various gift certificates? Does someone enjoy putting her baby in all different beautiful new outfits ( even if you don't like them all give them away someone else will certainly like it).Or maybe you don't like using all the new wonderful gifts you got to make your home special? A person did put time & energy into getting you a gift (even if it's from a registry) the least you can do is acknowledge them.

queen

Sun, Feb 12 2006, 1:58 pm

Crayon210 wrote:

I have never gotten a thank-you note that was so great that it made it worth getting the mail that day.

well..... how about sending me a gift and then deciding?????

Twisted Evil

Crayon210

Sun, Feb 12 2006, 2:01 pm

I'm sorry to say, but I still disagree.

ChavieK, you can call and ask if it was received (and when they say they'll send a card, I would ask them not to, but that's me).

amother

Thu, Feb 23 2006, 1:00 pm

Am I the only one here who doesn't hold by this minhag? I kept all the notes and cards we got for the wedding with the intention of sending out thank you cards, but bH life got busy and I never got around to it. Now, almost a year later seems silly to begin. I think the point of giving a gift is to GIVE it and make the receiver happy not to wait for them to spend hours on thanking you AND in the most personalized way. When you receive the gift you can thank the giver in person or call/email if it's someone you are in touch with. Just my $.02 (but then again I did not grow up in America)

Motek

Thu, Feb 23 2006, 1:39 pm

amother wrote:

I think the point of giving a gift is to GIVE it and make the receiver happy not to wait for them to spend hours on thanking you AND in the most personalized way.

you wouldn't be trying to assuage your guilt now, would you???

you wrote that you were the RECIPIENT of gifts, so think about what the RECIPIENT should be doing, not the giver! And who spends hours on thank you's? A card can take a few minutes to write and address. When you exaggerate, it sounds like you are ridiculing the idea of expressing gratitude.

Quote:

When you receive the gift you can thank the giver in person or call/email if it's someone you are in touch with.

I agree.

1stimer

Thu, Feb 23 2006, 1:43 pm

Quote:

I think the point of giving a gift is to GIVE it and make the receiver happy not to wait for them to spend hours on thanking you AND in the most personalized way.

that's the gift-givers issue. YOUR issue is to show hakaras hatov in the best possible way.

1stimer

Thu, Feb 23 2006, 1:44 pm

(sorry motek, our posts crossed)

Motek

Thu, Feb 23 2006, 1:49 pm

that's fine - nice to have someone second the motion

chen

Thu, Feb 23 2006, 2:15 pm

Crayon210 wrote:

Sorry, that's a bit lame-o. ...-I see it as basic bittul zman.

No, dear..what's lame-o and bittul zman is giving a gift to an ill-bred, Individual.
edited by mod

chen

Thu, Feb 23 2006, 2:19 pm

Crayon210 wrote:

I'm sorry to say, but I still disagree.

ChavieK, you can call and ask if it was received (and when they say they'll send a card, I would ask them not to, but that's me).

The givers did the work of giving; they should not have to follow up to find out if the item was received. That's the recipient's job.

amother

Thu, Feb 23 2006, 2:30 pm

I have given gifts plenty of time and I will be honest with you Motek, I never expected a thank you card or thought a lack of one was chutzpa or kafuy tova....really! I think in general people tend to expect of other people what they themselves do - so if I would never *expect* a thank you card to feel that my gift was appreciated or enjoyed, so too I wouldn't think that other people would view me as ungrateful for not having sent one. It's just an etiquette thing, nothing real.

chen

Thu, Feb 23 2006, 3:02 pm

OK, Miss Menschlich is mad as fire as not going to take it any more. Put on your flameproof aprons because you are in for it now!

Whence cometh this sense of entitlement? Since when does anyone OWE you a gift? (Perhaps this is a natural outgrowth of the whole overblown who-must-give-what-and-how-much chasunah scene that was described and decried elsewhere.) The giver gives you a gift not because it's coming to you and not because you deserve it, but because they, out of the goodness of their hearts, want you have something to help you celebrate a special occasion.

It's a tircha to write a note? It was a bigger tircha to write the check. It was a bigger tircha to go to Macy's and select that utterly adorable baby outfit, or even that hideous speckled green-and-brown vase that you can't wait to drop accidentally on purpose. You don't have to actually love the gift; you merely have to thank the giver. What you do with it afterwards is your business.

No one expects you to write the Great American Novel. A thank you note can be an exercise in creative writing for those who are so inclined (Miss Menschlich herself wrote several winners, even if she says so herself), but a simple expression of appreciation of any gift, as well as a practical acknowledgement of receipt of gifts that were not given in person. Even if you have to write 500 thank-you's, each addressee is receiving and reading only one. As far as s/he is concerned, this is the only note you wrote, and s/he is not bored with the formula as you are after writing essentially the same thing over and over. (Do you get tired of DH saying “I love you” over and over? Does he have to come up with a new and creative way to say it each time? Do we not wish people a mazal tov or a besho’oh tovoh in exactly the same way each time? It’s called a social formula and is the grease that lubricates the wheels of social interaction.)

Rivka--stamps are expensive? Gifts are more expensive.
Crayon—writing ty notes is silly and time-consuming? So is buying gifts for people who can’t be bothered showing appreciation. The point of a TY note is not to make it worth your while to pick up the mail that day. In fact, girls, the point of a TY is NOT ABOUT YOU-YOU-YOU the recipient; it’s about the giver. It’s about letting them know the gift was received and appreciated. (Yes, even if it wasn’t really appreciated. Even if you hauled it off to Goodwill the very next day. That’s another social formula. Like your mother really thought your little preschool clay candy dish that you gave her for Mother’s Day and looked like a collapsed mail sack was beautiful? )

amother wrote:

It's just an etiquette thing, nothing real.

. Etiquette is real. Etiquette is not about which fork to use with fish. It’s about being a mensch.

ForeverYoung wrote:

Why do you need a card? You'll throw it out anyway.

What do you need a birthday, mother’s day, anniversary, mazal tov on your marriage, mazal tov on your new baby card for? You’ll only throw it out anyway.

Amother of the belated notes: it’s not silly to send notes a year later; it’s silly to wait that long to start Better to send them out now, and maybe all those people you offended by not thanking them will take you off their blacklist.

Och un vei to our people if you are the future Imohos BeYisroel. Do your mothers know?

Flame off.

ChavieK--what you said. Miss Menschlich couldn’t have said it better herself.
edited by mod

1stimer

Thu, Feb 23 2006, 3:38 pm

chen

elisecohen

Thu, Feb 23 2006, 3:57 pm

Regarding the original post about pre-printed cards as thank yous; yes, it would certainly be better for the boy to at least add a few lines of his own. Even 2-3 sentences constitute a very nice thank you card from a child of this age. But dan l'chaf zechus--how well do you know this child and family? Is it possible the boy has fine motor problems, dyslexia/dysgraphia, behavioural problems, or other "invisible" disabilities? Maybe just having him make sure that those who gave do get an acknowledgement is quite an accomplishment in that household. Also, as most children won't do this naturally (look at all the adults here who don't want to), maybe there is some similar problem on the parents' behalf, and they felt it was better to go this route and be sure people were thanked than to not go with pre-printed cards and worry that due to some circumstance beyond your knowledge no thank yous would go out at all?

amother

Thu, Feb 23 2006, 4:10 pm

I know I will keep getting yelled at, but I believe your outrage at this feeling of entitlement can be directed as well at those who are waiting to be thanked for going out of their way to go to Macy's to buy that outfit or whatever for that self-centered kallah. The point is to GIVE, and yes you should feel hakaras hatov - but it can be expressed in buying a gift in return when that person has a simcha etc, lav davka sitting down and writing those thank you notes. Did they do that in Europe 100 years ago? Were people any less appreciative for gifts they recieved? And yes, I think it's the type of etiquette that is similar to which fork you use - question of standards in society not anything intrinsic. And please don't tell me to grow up - maybe we should just learn to listen and think just a little outside of how we were brought up. When I give a gift (or a check etc) all I care about is that the person should enjoy it and benefit from it not whether or not they express that to me. Crayon, where are you when we need you??

imanut

Thu, Feb 23 2006, 6:01 pm

writing thank-you notes after a wedding is easier than after a birth b/c you aren't busy yet with a baby.
I always keep a list of who gives gifts and write notes to eveyone I can, but there are always some that don't get for some reason or other (ie. I didn't know who gave a certain thing, I made a mental note and forgot, the letter got misplaced before it got sent etc.)
I would hope I'm not on someone's "blacklist" b/c of this.
I, in turn, try to be understanding if I don't get a note.

chen

Thu, Feb 23 2006, 6:51 pm

amother wrote:

hakaras hatov - but it can be expressed in buying a gift in return when that person has a simcha etc, lav davka sitting down and writing those thank you notes.

sorry, I disagree. gift giving is not tit for tat. when your mother's best friend gives you a wedding gift, what are you going to do in return--give her a 50th anniversary gift? I don't think so.

and expecting a thank you is hardly a sense of entitlement. entitlement means you think it's coming to you b/c you are you, despite the fact that you did nothing to deserve it. it is not a sense of entitlement to expect to be paid for work that you did, and it is not a sense of entitlement to expect to be thanked for a gift that you gave, You DID do something to deserve it.

I understand that in other countries thank you notes are not a custom as they are in the usa, canada and england. but considering that most of the members on this forum are from the usa, canada and england, it's fairly safe to generalize for those countries. if in russia, switzerland, israel and bofuthatswana they don't write ty notes, don't send ty notes to people in russia, switzerland, israel or bofuthatswana. but if you are from these countries and you are now living in the US, I would strongly suggest that you acquire a book of etiquette written for the US.