naming after non frum relatives

newtocali

Wed, Jul 29 2009, 3:00 pm

I have a hard time understanding how you could limit the name chosen if the relative left frumkeit? some people went through the holocaust and after that, had a difficult time believing in hashem. I dont think that there are many people on this site that can even relate to such an experience.

Ruchel

Wed, Jul 29 2009, 3:23 pm

newtocali wrote:

I love your post (and your name)

Atali

Wed, Jul 29 2009, 3:33 pm

Ruchel wrote:

newtocali wrote:

I love your post (and your name)

But not all non-frum relatives are holocaust survivors.

Ruchel

Wed, Jul 29 2009, 3:35 pm

Atali wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

newtocali wrote:

I love your post (and your name)

But not all non-frum relatives are holocaust survivors.

unfortunately children of holocaust survivors and sometimes even grandchildren struggle with the same issues as their parents, plus being tinok shenishba.

Atali

Wed, Jul 29 2009, 3:38 pm

Ruchel wrote:

Atali wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

newtocali wrote:

I love your post (and your name)

But not all non-frum relatives are holocaust survivors.

unfortunately children of holocaust survivors and sometimes even grandchildren struggle with the same issues as their parents, plus being tinok shenishba.

Not all of them are descendants of Holocaust survivors either, and even of those who are survivors, not all were frum before the war either.

Ruchel

Wed, Jul 29 2009, 3:43 pm

Atali wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

Atali wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

newtocali wrote:

I love your post (and your name)

But not all non-frum relatives are holocaust survivors.

unfortunately children of holocaust survivors and sometimes even grandchildren struggle with the same issues as their parents, plus being tinok shenishba.

Not all of them are descendants of Holocaust survivors either, and even of those who are survivors, not all were frum before the war either.

You are right of course. But for many people you can find a reason for being non frum, be it war, disillusioned through bad experiences growing up, or simply never taught!

soldat

Wed, Jul 29 2009, 4:28 pm

Atali wrote:

Ruchel wrote:

newtocali wrote:

But not all non-frum relatives are holocaust survivors.

unfortunately children of holocaust survivors and sometimes even grandchildren struggle with the same issues as their parents, plus being tinok shenishba.

I'm sorry - but if I arrived in the US in the early 1900's and couldn't get a job that would allow me to keep Shabbos, and my children were starving - I can't say that with 100% certianty that I would be strong enough not to work on shabbos
AND if I grew up not frum, I don't know if I'd have the strength to change the way I live

I firmly believe that when s/o who didn't grow up keeping kosher and goes to a treifa restaurant but choose the least treif item on the menu - that it gives Hashem more nachas then my kosher kitchen!

Atali

Wed, Jul 29 2009, 5:11 pm

OTOH, would I want my child to emulate those who did not withstand those nisiyonos or those who did?

I am not sitting there blaming people for going off the derech in difficult circumstances. I am simply not so comfortable naming after people who were born frum and went off the derech, since I would be nervous about the negative effect it could chas v'shalom have on the child.

And I would include those who went off the derech in bein adam l'chaveiro matters (such as dishonest businessmen) in this category as well.

BeershevaBubby

Thu, Jul 30 2009, 1:26 am

Atali wrote:

But some of us see it as an elevation and Refuah to the Neshama to be Torah-observant.

manhattanmom

Thu, Jul 30 2009, 9:31 am

I have some non-frum relatives (grandparents, great-grandparents.) None of my sibings or myself are named after relatives who were fully shomer torah u'mitzvohs--some were born as a "tinok shenishba" and some were born frum but simply "gave it up when they came to America 100 years ago."
I can't imagine considering NOT to name one of my kids after one of my grandparents who had sterling midos, many beautiful traits, were completely understanding and supportive of their children becoming frum and loved their grandchildren (me and my siblings) unconditionally.

anonmommy

Thu, Jul 30 2009, 12:06 pm

There is a big difference in my opinion naming for a non frum relative who has wonderful middos, and lived a long moral life, than a relative who doesn't.
a name has a lot of kochos attached to it and there is a whole spiritual energy (?- cant think of the right term now) that goes with a name. it is not just a simple matter of naming after someone.
I have a son born on my grandfathers yartzeit and named after him (he wasnt frum). I am now expecting another boy, and another grandfather died a year ago, and I wouldn't name for him. I didnt like his middos, and thats enough for me.
many rabbonim say that when you add a name its not considered the same name. this may help in some situations if you want to please the family but dont want to name after a non frum family member. so anyway, those are my thoughts!

BeershevaBubby

Thu, Jul 30 2009, 12:46 pm

Ruchel wrote:

I would not name after a non frum person with bad middos. Neither would do if he was frum.

^ ITA.

A 'bad' person is a bad person, whether or not s/he was frum. To me it's more important the person be known as a mentch than how long his beard was or how long her dress was.

amother

Thu, Jul 30 2009, 2:41 pm

I recently asked a big rov- who has written lots of books about names, about naming my baby after a non frum relative,
he said that you are also naming after the original person in the torah or wherever the name originated from so not to worry about such things as its a strong minhag to keep names going in the family.