Im no fan of PETA but if Halachically and less painful

amother

Wed, Jun 09 2010, 10:31 am

Im no fan of PETA, nor an animal rights activist, but if Halachically there are less painful ways to Shecht and it seems that there are other less painful ways-

1- why do this to the animal and

2- why allow the media to have photographic proof of animal torture?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....edded

Mrs Bissli

Wed, Jun 09 2010, 10:57 am

the problem is, it's not halachically acceptable to stun the animal.
If animal suffers the same degree of pain, why not shechita?

Also I find those PETA videos and description to be highly misleading. You can't gauge pain or degree of sufferings by looking at visual proof. Image YOU might consider as painful is not equal to actual pain.

amother

Wed, Jun 09 2010, 11:06 am

Mrs Bissli wrote:

You can't gauge pain or degree of sufferings by looking at visual proof. Image YOU might consider as painful is not equal to actual pain.

Experts in the field seem to feel that this method is exceptionally painful and EVEN Rabbi Metzger vowed to stop it!!! If R' Metzger felt the charges were nonsense, and this was NOT unusually inhumane, he would have clearly stated that. We cant always cry antisemitism.

amother

Wed, Jun 09 2010, 11:44 am

Ruchel wrote:

I'm not watching this, but shechita is the most humane way. Just google around.

Within Halachically accepted methods of Shechita, there are much more and much less humane options it seems. It's not that clear-cut. Obviously if R' Metzger vowed to end importing meat where this manner of Shechita was employed, he seems uncomfortable with it himself. I doubt he vowed to end importing animals killed in this fashion to pacify anyone. It seems this method is used chiefly in South America, and not in the US, but the meat is imported to US and Israel.

prettyone

Wed, Jun 09 2010, 11:53 am

it does seem inhumane and there have got to be ways to shecht an animal without doing all that to them. in fact its against halacha to cause an animal unnecessary pain

DovDov

Wed, Jun 09 2010, 11:55 am

When we say schita is the most humane way, we're saying that bleeding to death from the schita cut is less painful than other ways of dying. That has no bearing whatsoever on the humanity or inhumanity of methods of restraining the animals prior to schechting or after.

Contrast this method -- sliding the animal down a chute, grabbing it around the legs so it falls, twisting its neck around with a metal fork for schita, then hoisting it up by one leg and possibly even starting to butcher while it is still dying -- with, say, leading the standing animals from a spacious pen by a halter one at a time into a separate room to a small pen whose sides constrict to immobilize the animals and then schechting, waiting for the animal to die before removing it and bringing in the next animal.

Yes, it would take much longer, but it's clearly more humane even though the actual killing stroke is the same.

Clearly more expensive. How much more expensive per pound of meat? You'd have to ask someone else.

yo'ma

Wed, Jun 09 2010, 12:05 pm

I'm going to show this to my dh and ask him if that's how theydo it. I just know a few things from what he told me. A few weeks ago, while trying to hold the legs, one of the shochtim got kicked in the face. Nothing broke. Also, he's spoken to some non jews where he works and all of them said that the kosher meat is softer than the non-kosher meat. The reason why is because the cows aren't as tense when they die. Even if they move after being slaughtered, they don't feel anything because the nerves are already cut. With the non-kosher meat, they hit it on the head or something, but they're still alive, just unconscious. Kosher shechita is the most humane way to kill an animal.

If you don't know, my dh is not a mashgiach or shochet, but he works for his father who has a plant that exports meat to Israel. The U.S. only allows cooked meat from Argentina. It's actually a huge plant and they have kosher and non-kosher meat there. My fil's part is the kosher meat, obviously.

yo'ma

Mon, Jun 14 2010, 3:14 pm

My dh finally saw the video. He said, that's pretty much what they do, but if they're professionals it takes a total of about 30 seconds and like I said before even if the cow is moving, it doesn't feel anything. He thinks the video was done poorly, so it looked worse than it was.

marina

Tue, Jun 15 2010, 12:37 am

Shackling & hoisting is not more humane than an upright restraint pen, this has been shown many times over. For more detailed information, http://www.grandin.com/ritual/......html

Shackling & hoisting is done for one reason only- b/c some people are machmir on shechita milmaleh lemateh, so the knife has to go cut down into the animal as opposed to up into the animal. As always, machmir on one thing, meikil on another.