Rebellious Nephew, what is our responsibility?

718

Mon, Aug 08 2011, 6:19 pm

Without getting into too many details, my nephew is out of Yeshiva, hanging around.
He has become close to dh who has an open ear without judgement. Starving for this kind of love and attention he is clinging onto dh and has started texting him very often.
This kid is doing whatever he wants and nobody can stop him. He hangs with kids who are using drugs, going to theaters till very late etc
Dh wants to try to spend more time with him. Dh asked this boys father permission before taking him to park to play ball or anything else.
Tonight he texted dh asking what he should do... dh texted back that only with his fathers persmission can he come watch a movie by us. He responded that hes not asking his father because he will never let.
Dh thinks its ridiculous being that he will do much worse out there on his own.

I dont think its our place to come between this boy and his parents. Its one thing if this boy defies and upsets his parents, its quite another if they are upset at us.

Dh agrees with this but thinks this situation is different. I think he feels kindship towards this boy because they are very alike, and dh can strongly relate to him.

Can anyone give more insight or ideas regarding such a situation?

mummiedearest

Mon, Aug 08 2011, 6:30 pm

why not have dh ask the father? is the father aware of the son's extracurricular activities? since your dh is willing to spend time with this nephew, he's going to have to deal with the dad. if dad is truly against coming over to watch a movie under your dh's supervision, it's probably time to get a rav involved. have dh find a rav to talk to who the nephew would potentially feel comfortable with. get the rav to talk to the father and explain that he will help guide your dh in dealing with the nephew, and that the dad should allow certain things. maybe when the nephew sees that certain things are allowed by dad, he can start speaking to dad directly when he wants to do things. it would be a step in the right direction. meanwhile, see if your dh can come up with a list of activites that would get easy approval. nephew can come over and play board games (gasp, boring, but he might agree to it) or a puzzle or just pop popcorn and chill. have some snacks handy for him. teenage boys generally love to eat.

question: how much time are you willing to have dh spend with this nephew? it's something to think about.

mummiedearest

Mon, Aug 08 2011, 7:15 pm

718 wrote:

We wont get intimately involved with his parents or with a rebbe. This is his parents job and Bh he doesnt need surrogate parenting.

We just want to be there. Simple.

Keeping it simple also helps keep the channels open.

ok then. in that case, just keep the channels open. I guess I'm confused by your question. it's not your obligation to parent him. you're right. are you asking how to keep it simple? just continue doing what you're doing, and don't get too involved. however, your dh does want to spend more time with the nephew, so why not have him talk to the parents?

"nephew thinks you won't ok movie time at my house. I'm fine with that, just want to verify. if it's not ok, are you ok with him doing xyz at my house? we love having him over, I just want to make sure everything is ok with you."

I don't think that's getting too involved. I assume the nephew is related on dh's side? that means there's a sis or bro involved. I don't think there's anything wrong with asking for clear rules. if anything, that will prevent them from getting angry at you.

718

Mon, Aug 08 2011, 8:44 pm

mummiedearest wrote:

718 wrote:

Youre right, it is a confusing question.

Dh feels that the only way to create a honest and trusting relationship is to just be there, regardless. Regardless is the key word here.
But I dont think dh can do things with him without his parents permission. Which at the same time wont foster this kind of relationship...

Therefore Im asking- what are our roles?
Should we just be there for him, until what line? Where do we say, ok this is for your parents to decide.
I want to have an idea of what the ground rules are.

6yeladim

Mon, Aug 08 2011, 10:18 pm

I really don't understand why a teenager needs permission to go visit his uncle. In a normal situation this wouldn't happen, so treat it like everything is normal.
The kid obviously doesn't ask permission before he does half of the stuff that he is doing.
I would let him come. You can deal with the father if and when he objects. If the father is at all reasonable he will be grateful that his son is off the street for a short time. The father is clearly not in control of his son so asking him to get involved makes it worse for everyone, in my opinion.
Your DH is doing a wonderful thing, by keeping the boy close to the family while he is having issues with his own parents. You're not taking over his parents' job by inviting him to visit.

718

Mon, Aug 08 2011, 10:55 pm

6yeladim wrote:

You make a good point. I guess I dont want to be caught in the cross fire.
Dh couldnt care less

718

Tue, Aug 09 2011, 2:54 pm

6yeladim wrote:

Psychologist Daniel Schonfeld talks about the importance of having mentors for kids at risk. If you ask for permission from the boy's father you are taking the parents' side, but the boy needs a neutral party. As the uncle your DH is in the perfect position. Good luck!

Thanks for your advice!

ElTam

Tue, Aug 09 2011, 7:26 pm

Your nephew sounds very lucky to have you. I agree that it is better to be with DH that who knows who doing who knows what. It is up to the parents if they want to mix in with where he is going. I think your DH needs to be very clear that nephew can't sneak or lie to come to you though.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Aug 24 2011, 3:40 pm

718 wrote:

Sorry, I'm going to disagree here. I'd say that exactly what this boy needs is his parents and a rebbe! Keep being there, but keep the boy's parents in the loop too. A lot depends on if the boy is over 18 or not. Doing things with him without his parents' approval could CVS put you in a bad legal position.

One thing I'm a bit confused about. If the boy is doing drugs and staying out all night, why isn't his father stopping him from doing THAT, when he can stop the boy from going over to his uncle's house to watch a kosher film? What do that parents think he's doing with all of his time? What about his mom, are you friendly with her at all? Could you maybe invite her over for coffee and have a chat?

Did the boy drop out of yeshiva, or did he graduate? Does he have any plans for his future? He needs to have a reason to work on himself and something to focus on. Even if it's just a trade school where he can learn to assemble electronics or something, he needs to be able to further his education and better himself in some way. Just wandering around aimlessly is a guaranteed recipe for disaster.

718

Thu, Aug 25 2011, 6:10 am

He's under 18, Not too far behind.
He won't do drugs- hes surrounded by it but decided to be smarter.
He didn't do girls, but prob other things.
He was in yeshiva- until summer break. He didn't miss a day and learnt with chavrusa- problem was nobody wanted to learn with him and his RY told him he can go get a job. He doesn't fit the mold and instead of encouraging him, they're too afraid of it.

He has very involved parents and rav, bh he has that going for him. That was my point.

He got very close to us, telling us everything that's going on. I didn't know what role we should play- dh said were just going to be friends and talk to him like adult. Were not being him mechanach but will be honest with him.

Bh he went to new yeshiva now- a little early. Really hope he settles down a bit.

Chayalle

Thu, Aug 25 2011, 6:29 am

To those who advised the OP that she and her DH do not need to have the parents permission: I actually applaud the OP for being sensitive to that. Otherwise it can backfire in a big way and be harmful for all involved.

I have a relative who has a kid at risk...and at one point, said kid was at odds with parents, so went to aunt and uncle - who were much younger than the parents - actually closer to the kids age, and understood kid more in some areas. However they didn't inform the parents....lead to tremendous angst between them, that took a long time to resolve, don't know if it ever will 100%...and in the end, the kid lost a relationship there that could've benefited everyone.

I also personally think it's wrong to be involved with the kid in any way that the parents don't approve of. I think that quietly, behind the scenes, you can speak to the parents and verify that they are ok with whatever role you play. And as another poster mentioned, there are many "kosher" activities that you can enjoy with him, that can provide him with a safe haven - a place where he can just be.

Good for you that you are being there for your relative. And remember that the pasuk tells us that those who involve themselves in the needs of the community - and taking care of kids who are at risk certainly falls into that category - Hashem will reward them.

Fox

Thu, Aug 25 2011, 8:04 am

I think this is a situation in which you can inform the parents without expressly asking their permission. You can say something like, "Shloimie seems to enjoy spending time at our house, and we really enjoy having him. I know he's had a rough year, and we want both him and you to know that we're here for him." This provides his parents with reassurance that you are sensitive to their concerns and goals for their son; at the same time, it avoids the problem of becoming in loco parentis.

superjew

Thu, Aug 25 2011, 9:30 am

I was in a real similiar situation. I would suggest having a discussion with his parents. See what they really think of their son. Do they KNOW what road he's on/going down?
So if they don't know, first thing would be to inform them & help open their minds on how to parent him. (you don't have to do that, but you can forward them to a Rabbi or organization)
You can then (or, if they already know) just state that he likes coming over to your house & you enjoy him over, too. Just explain that you are going to be there for him as a uncle/aunt.
Just like what Fox said, so you're respecting them but explaining it & telling them (so it isn't behind their back) but no need to ask for permission.
I understand you dont want to get dirty but if your DH doesn't mind then he feels strongly about this & thats more important to be a supportive wife.
And honestly, not necessarily will it get dirty. (unless his parents are that way)

Good Luck!

718

Sat, Aug 27 2011, 6:51 pm

Chayalle wrote:

You described my situation very well...
We are much younger and even if not, who are we to swoop in and "have a talk with his parents". I think its nerve and completely out of line.