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Forum
-> Household Management
-> Finances
shayna82
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 Sun, Aug 13 2006, 10:05 pm
| Motek wrote: | I understand what you're saying about tuitition, the humiliation, the tension, nevertheless, this line bothers me:
| su7kids wrote: | | Myhusband allowed me to be a stay at home mom. |
That's your role, your right, your children need you, and your husband handed you a kesuba which said he would provide. You are under no obligation to join the workforce. |
shes not saying shes obligated, shes saying her husband makes enough for her to be home, or they live with less so that she can be home, however, a lot of women HAVE to work, not that they are obligated to.
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su7kids
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Sun, Aug 13 2006, 10:54 pm
Actually, he did NOT make enough for me to be able to stay home, and we have struggled for the last 26 years to make ends meet. But it has been worth it.
My kids have appreciated it and I appreciated it and there are many men who are not "man" enough to say "I will do what it takes". Myhusband has worked up to 4 jobs at a time to support our family, and we haven't gone without, but it has been a stressful struggle all along.
It is not my RIGHT to be able to stay home with my kids, it was a privilege. I know of many men who would DEMAND their wives work. (And I'm not talking about a mom who chooses to go out to work.)
Thanks DH for that.
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Chani
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Mon, Aug 14 2006, 6:18 am
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The only problem is that many families with stay at home mothers have to get scholarships to pay for tuition. Well, the school has to get the money to pay for the cost of educating those children from somewhere...namely, the other parents who don't get scholarships end up paying even more (and who are often dual-income families b/c they want to avoid asking for scholarships in the first place!).
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bandcm
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Mon, Aug 14 2006, 9:25 am
Does it really cost the amount demanded in school fees to educate one child?
Perhaps it does.
Perhaps the school can get by in other ways.
I have a close relative who is a school principal, and is responsible for the finances. Every grant an government sponsorship that is available is aggressively pursued, sometimes very creatively. The school fees are very low.
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chen
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Mon, Aug 14 2006, 9:40 am
| bandcm wrote: | Does it really cost the amount demanded in school fees to educate one child?
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actually, on average, tution fees cover only 1/3 of the cost of educating one child (that's assuming the full tuition is paid). The balance has to be made up by creative and aggressive fundraising, active pursuit of government and other grants, and private donations.
the cost of educating a child goes way beyond just books and paying the teachers. There is auxiliary staff (clericals, custodial, maintenance and kitchen)to be paid; fringe benefits which run at least 1/3 to 1/2 of each person's salary; pensions; workers' compensation premiums; heating, cooling and lighting; ongoing building repairs--which can be prohibitive when it's time for a new roof or boiler; materials and equipment (think copiers, printers, toner, paper); insurance of various types, and so on and so forth. Just ask your school's financial committee.
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gryp
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Mon, Aug 14 2006, 9:40 am
bandcm, do you know how much he pays his teachers?
because afaik, teachers dont make that much and are in urgent need of a salary raise too.
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Motek
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Tue, Aug 15 2006, 4:29 pm
| su7kids wrote: | | Actually, he did NOT make enough for me to be able to stay home, and we have struggled for the last 26 years to make ends meet. But it has been worth it. |
| Quote: | | Myhusband has worked up to 4 jobs at a time to support our family |
| Quote: | | It is not my RIGHT to be able to stay home with my kids, it was a privilege. I know of many men who would DEMAND their wives work. (And I'm not talking about a mom who chooses to go out to work.) |
I am certainly not trying to convince you to appreciate your husband any less by saying what I say, and I still say it is absolutely your right to stay home and raise your children, and your children's right to have you raise them. The fact that some men DEMAND that their wives work reflects poorly on THEM as they have NO RIGHT to demand that. I think any rav would concur.
| Quote: | | Thanks DH for that. |
You can thank your husband for being so devoted and appreciative of your vital role as mother. I don't think he needs to be thanked for not being a creep!
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Raisin
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Tue, Aug 15 2006, 5:25 pm
| Chani wrote: | | The only problem is that many families with stay at home mothers have to get scholarships to pay for tuition. Well, the school has to get the money to pay for the cost of educating those children from somewhere...namely, the other parents who don't get scholarships end up paying even more (and who are often dual-income families b/c they want to avoid asking for scholarships in the first place!). |
No...maybe they are getting the extra money from fundraising, grants etc. And even if it's true, I don't think it's fair to ask all mothers to go out to work. Plus parents who don't work may have more spare time to orginize fundrasiers, volunteer etc (I've heard of schools requesting volunteering instead of fees, which is a great idea)
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lubcoralsprings
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Thu, Aug 24 2006, 10:13 pm
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Nobody will take care of your children like you will. Who wants to miss all of those precious memories? I think it's hard to do both eventhough many woman do it.
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Ribbie Danzinger
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Thu, Oct 19 2006, 5:37 pm
 A general observation for all of us: often a family will be living with the same size overdraft for years, without it growing. This means that you are actually living within your capabilities, albeit with a huge pack on your back.
When this happens it is wisest to sit down with ALL your bills over the past three months or so and see what is happening.
Make a list of every single item that you pay for: electric, rates, water etc, grocery, education, clothing, shoes, medical, opticians, telephones, cellphones, cars, gifts, cleaning equipment, etc. Take particular note of things like memberships, newspapers you get, internet charges etc. Work out how much you really need per month. Add to that the amount you need for yomtov, Pesach etc (divided by 12 for the monthly amount which you should put into a separate account each month until it is needed).
Then find out how much income you really get: dh's work, second job, your job, government grants, parent's assistance etc. 
If the income doesn't meet the outgoing expenses  you have two choices ,
EITHER to reduce outlay - (is the weekly Jewish newspaper an essential item? Meat and chicken during the week? Can we reduce to one car instead of two, or even no car at all? Can we reduce the cellphone costs? etc) 
OR to increase your income (find a job, dh find a second job, ask parents for help etc.) 
OR BOTH! 
But remember, this is our histadlus, we need Hashem's brocho too. So PRAY for it. 
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anon
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Thu, Oct 19 2006, 6:59 pm
[quote="Motek"] | su7kids wrote: |
| Quote: | | It is not my RIGHT to be able to stay home with my kids, it was a privilege. I know of many men who would DEMAND their wives work. (And I'm not talking about a mom who chooses to go out to work.) |
I am certainly not trying to convince you to appreciate your husband any less by saying what I say, and I still say it is absolutely your right to stay home and raise your children, and your children's right to have you raise them. The fact that some men DEMAND that their wives work reflects poorly on THEM as they have NO RIGHT to demand that. I think any rav would concur.
| Quote: | | Thanks DH for that. |
You can thank your husband for being so devoted and appreciative of your vital role as mother. I don't think he needs to be thanked for not being a creep! |
Excuuuuuse Me. Do you mean to call all husbands who insist their wives work CREEPS? Let me tell you something. The world isn't what it used to be. Thanks to women's lib which allowed women to work, life has become that most women HAVE to work....that's the only way to pay the bills. Plus, many women expect a certain quality of life (for every girl, depending on how she was raised, the level of quality is different), and don't want to go less than that. Furthermore, I would feel absolutely HORRIBLE if my poor dh had to work a few jobs everyday, early morning until late at night while I didn't step my toe in a job.
Now let me ask you something. Would you call a girl a CREEP if she insisted that her husband help her with housework, give kids bath etc.? Or would you think that a husband was a creep if he never lifted a finger to help?? WELL! Let me tell you this....if a woman told her husband that she won't work because it is her RIGHT to stay at home with the kids.....well she better not even think about asking him to help her with any home chores!!
Just a side note. DH was working in a school one day, and he overheard a woman complaining to an administrator (or someone in charge of tuition) that she can't afford to pay the tuition that the school is demanding of her. Apparently this woman is a stay-at-home mom because the administrator was not too sympathetic when he said something along the lines of "in this day and age women have to work".
Obviously if you're in a situation where you don't have to work, or your dh wants to work extra hard so that you can stay home with the children then that's great for you! But to say that a husband is a jerk for wanting his wife to work, at least part-time, is unfair (especially without knowing how "high-maintenance" the wife is!).
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Motek
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Thu, Oct 19 2006, 7:53 pm
| anon wrote: | | But to say that a husband is a jerk for wanting his wife to work, at least part-time, is unfair (especially without knowing how "high-maintenance" the wife is!). |
I don't think it's an issue of fairness. The Torah obligates him to support his wife. That's what it says in the kesuba he gave you. Therefore, the Torah gives him no right to insist that his wife work.
If she is unappreciative of his efforts and SHE demands a lot, then ... she's the creep 
As for the administrator, I think he was stepping out of line with his remark.
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Ruchel
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Fri, Oct 20 2006, 7:18 am
| Motek wrote: | | anon wrote: | | But to say that a husband is a jerk for wanting his wife to work, at least part-time, is unfair (especially without knowing how "high-maintenance" the wife is!). |
I don't think it's an issue of fairness. The Torah obligates him to support his wife. That's what it says in the kesuba he gave you. Therefore, the Torah gives him no right to insist that his wife work.
If she is unappreciative of his efforts and SHE demands a lot, then ... she's the creep
As for the administrator, I think he was stepping out of line with his remark. |
I agree.
Imho, a husband forcing his wife to work, just like a husband forcing his wife to stay home, is a creep.
The worst category being a non working husband forcing his wife to work.
A wife is not a slave.
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drrivky
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Fri, Oct 20 2006, 9:03 am
for anyone that is in debt and cannot get out of it - there is an organization http://www.paamonim.com/eng/html/. it's really great. they do amazing work. I'm not sure they work in america but they do in israel.
goodluck
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gryp
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Fri, Oct 20 2006, 9:56 am
| Quote: | | Thanks to women's lib which allowed women to work, life has become that most women HAVE to work....that's the only way to pay the bills. Plus, many women expect a certain quality of life (for every girl, depending on how she was raised, the level of quality is different), and don't want to go less than that. |
if you want to live that kind of life (which may mean different things to me and you), then yes, you will need the extra money. but you have a choice to live simply, struggle financially your entire life, and have the privilege to raise your own children. the latter appeals to me more.
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melalyse
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Sun, Oct 22 2006, 9:48 am
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I think that it affects children if they mamish have nothing growing up either. I think that a child would rather have mommy work a little then never getting one dress of their own and having to wear the hand me downs that went through 5 of their siblings. I am not speaking about luxuries, but I think most children would rather their moms be out of the house part time and have some form of normalcy.
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gryp
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Sun, Oct 22 2006, 12:03 pm
again, it depends what "normalcy" and "luxuries" means to you.
I am sure there are families out there who all they get is handmedowns from neighbors and they can be perfectly content like that.
others are horrified at the thought of buying clothing from a dept store.
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chen
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Mon, Oct 23 2006, 9:17 am
| melalyse wrote: | | I think that it affects children if they mamish have nothing growing up either. I think that a child would rather have mommy work a little then never getting one dress of their own and having to wear the hand me downs that went through 5 of their siblings. |
It depends very much on your environment. Listen to your grandparents or great-grands. many of them will say "we were very poor, but we didn't feel poor because evryone around us was just as poor as we were." My own children tell me I had a deprived childhood, but I never felt deprived till I went to school with children whose parents had money. On the flip side I have a relative who is always complaining how poor he is. he enjoys a far higher standard of living than we do, but he feels deprived because many of his friends and neighbors are quite wealthy while he is "only" middle-class.
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raizy
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Thu, Oct 26 2006, 11:15 pm
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we dont afford life . we survive it month after month. and believe u me. Hashem helps us each month.
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