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Forum -> Parenting our children -> School age children

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Shopmiami49

Sat, Jun 23 2012, 3:52 pm

DrMom wrote:

Yikes. The plot did indeed thicken quite a bit.

So, you think she sent her daughter to you just so she could have a "source" for negatve rumors about your DD's business?

Very sophisticated corporate espionage.

not to mention amazing chinuch... Rolling Eyes

Fox

Mon, Jun 25 2012, 1:50 pm

Shopmiami49 wrote:

DrMom wrote:

not to mention amazing chinuch... Rolling Eyes

Well, I that's what I wondered initially!

However, I suspect that such Byzantine plotting is a little beyond Mom. Adding up all the seemingly insignificant comments made by the erstwhile assistant counselor, Mom, and a few parents, we are getting the sense that Mom had counted chickens before they hatched -- she had simply assumed that working parents who used her daycare services during the academic year would not only continue to use them during the summer, but would need additional care, too.

My DD runs her camp for the entire summer -- from the end of most of the schools until the day before school starts again. I suspect this was also a revelation to Mom, who had probably counted on racking up large fees in the weeks before camp starts and between the end of most camps and the beginning of the school year.

So Mom, whose financial situation is somewhat precarious, probably panicked a bit when she realized that a few key families on whom she was counting were, in fact, planning to use her services very sparingly. She advertises a policy of "no commitment" (e.g., she'll take kids for any amount of time and doesn't require parents to agree to specific hours, etc.) -- but she probably hadn't expected people to take her at face value.

So I basically handled it by letting DD vent, and then reminding her that the world operates on the principle of midda keneged midda. Although she prides herself on being very professional, perhaps she had once garnered a client at someone's expense, and likewise, "Mom" will no doubt reap what she sows, even if DD doesn't witness it.

I also mentioned that this is precisely why we daven that Hashem gives us parnosseh easily and without embarrassment: not only do we want to avoid having to rely on tzeddakah, but we also want to avoid being put into situations where we may be tempted to allow the corners of our middos to be nibbled away by need.

In the academic world, there is a saying that people fight so bitterly because the stakes are so small. I guess the same applies in the babysitting veldt, too!

DrMom

Mon, Jun 25 2012, 2:05 pm

Just wondering out loud:

I wonder if she feels that your daughter has "poached" her customers?

There are also halachot re: setting up a competing business in the same neighborhood as an existing business owned by another Jew. Is your dd's business "kosher" w.r.t. these halachot?

Not saying that any of this excuses poor behavior on her part, but I am wondering if you took these matters under consideration.

Fox

Mon, Jun 25 2012, 2:14 pm

DrMom wrote:

Well, my DD has been doing this camp for six years, and "Mom" just started babysitting last fall. Plus, there are lots of various camp options in the community as well as other babysitters -- it's not a situation where there's no room for competing businesses. So while we didn't ask a specific shaila this year, we have asked about various activities in the past, and our rav didn't think such a small business was problematic.

I suspect her rationalization went something along the lines of, "She's just a teenager and doesn't really need the money to help support a family."

DrMom

Mon, Jun 25 2012, 2:44 pm

Got it.

Well, it seems the best you can do is wait for an apology, should one ever be forthcoming. Excuse my cynicism, but please don't hold your breath...

Fox

Mon, Jun 25 2012, 2:52 pm

LOL! Yeah, DD's not sitting by her phone! Truthfully, I think "Mom" and her family fall more into the "nebach" category than the "scheming" category, so any lost business should just be a kapporah.

amother

Tue, Jun 26 2012, 12:01 am

I send DC to your DD's camp and have used "Mom" as a babysitter! When I first started sending DC to Mom a friend called advising me not to, citing a whole list of concerns. I went ahead anyway, a DC have been very happy with Mom, and are having a wonderful time at your dd's camp.

I think Mom freaked out when she realized how many paying customers she stood to loose. The family are in a tight spot financially, and she does work very hard trying to improve their situation.

enneamom

Tue, Jun 26 2012, 2:48 am

zaq wrote:

The act of procreation does not automatically endow a person with an adult work ethic or even common courtesy.

Great line! Thumbs Up

Fox

Tue, Jun 26 2012, 11:48 am

amother wrote:

I think Mom freaked out when she realized how many paying customers she stood to loose. The family are in a tight spot financially, and she does work very hard trying to improve their situation.

Yeah, that's my take on it. DD has previously had a good relationship with "Mom" and has tried to be supportive (e.g., helping out when she drops kids off, etc.), so I think she just took it a little personally.

As you know, DD is quite the little entrepreneur (for both good and bad!), and adults are often quite surprised to find out how serious she is when it comes to business. She plays fair and will do absolutely anything for her clients, but if it takes dancing bears to make her camp successful, I can expect to look outside and see those bears doing a jig. Thank goodness she scaled it back this year -- I just hid in the basement last year!

DD is also Miss Marketing, and sometimes she creates more "buzz" than she intends. I doubt if her camp would have seriously impacted Mom's business, but were I in Mom's shoes, I'd probably have felt threatened, too. Even losing a couple of kids adds up to hundreds of dollars a month.

It's hard for teenagers to learn (and for parents to teach!) that adults are human beings, and they have their own problems and fears that may cause them to react in less than perfect ways sometimes. Hopefully, everyone will have plenty of parnosseh and shalom will be restored in the 'hood!

manyhats

Tue, Jun 26 2012, 12:04 pm

Fox,

What about this specific topic motivated this "vent" ?

I believe it's b/c your daughter, bH, has shown great business acumen over the past six years. Any mother would justifiably be proud.

Much simcha, and success to all residents of Fox den.

Bracha

manyhats

Tue, Jun 26 2012, 12:14 pm

I would like to send a little sympathy Mrs Mom way.

I also wonder what my take on this issue should be.

Should my main emphasis be on the business end?

Should I give any consideration to Mom's tight financial situation?

Should I in some way throw business Mom's way?

I could do this by turning away Mom's clients.

What should my motives be based on?

yummymummy

Tue, Jun 26 2012, 12:28 pm

Fox wrote:

Interestingly, DD had already consulted with a rav concerning Mom: This past year, DD contracted with a couple of working parents to transport their kids from half-day playgroups to Mom's daycare each day, and she was very disturbed by what she saw. Not only was the operation unlicensed, but Mom expressed no interest in becoming licensed; she had far, far more kids than her home could comfortably accommodate; and she often left for up to an hour at a time to do various carpools and errands, leaving a cleaning lady in charge.

The bolded is quite concerning, are the parents aware of how many kids she watches or that she often leaves to run errands?

Fox

Tue, Jun 26 2012, 1:25 pm

yummymummy wrote:

The bolded is quite concerning, are the parents aware of how many kids she watches or that she often leaves to run errands?

DD told her that she was concerned, and when the situation didn't seem to improve, she spoke with a rav who is familiar with Mom and her family. Since other parents who know the situation say that things are good, I presume that whatever problems existed have been addressed.

manyhats wrote:

What about this specific topic motivated this "vent" ?

I suppose the real kicker is the relationship between these two issues: when DD, who works as a nanny and is relatively experienced in child care, saw problems with Mom's operation, she first spoke to Mom directly. She wasn't confrontational or accusatory; she just mentioned some of her own experiences with similar issues and urged Mom to make sure everything was okay. However, I'm sure no adult likes being taken to task by a 17-year-old, no matter how tactfully it was done (and DD, whom I love dearly, tends to blunter than I am). We don't know exactly what the rav said or did, but both DD and amother seem to believe that Mom is providing a safe environment.

The understanding that I wanted DD to gain from that experience is that Jews do not go off half-cocked when there's a problem; they speak kindly to one another and, if needed, ask for assistance from a rav. If a situation is dangerous, of course, one summons appropriate help, but that didn't seem to be the case here.

With my guidance and prompting, she had tried to handle a sensitive situation in a way that would actually solve the problem without harming Mom's reputation or fledgling business. In fact, she and Mom discussed marketing strategies and she even gave Mom suggestions about how and where to advertise and told her who to contact about licensure.

So DD -- and I -- are experiencing the familiar frustration of having tried to take the high road, only to discover that in this case, the "high road" was a one-way street. The chinuch lesson, of course, is that we don't need to keep score; Hashem is quite well aware of whether we succeed or fail in various nisyonos. DD seems to have moved on, and since she was able to replace the lost campers, the sting of the situation has abated.

Gosh! If I'd known I was in for this much drama, I could've stayed in the academic world and fought bitter battles over educational taxonomies and the like!

enneamom

Tue, Jun 26 2012, 2:08 pm

manyhats wrote:

Should I give any consideration to Mom's tight financial situation?

Should I in some way throw business Mom's way?

I could do this by turning away Mom's clients.

What should my motives be based on?

I hate to disagree, but this seems counterproductive to me. Just from what I read, Mom sounds unlikely to appreciate any of this, return the favor, or even change her behavior vis-a-vis rumor spreading against DD (though I do hope I'm wrong!)

Sometimes you just have to move on and not try to "fix" people who are acting problematically.

seeker

Tue, Jun 26 2012, 3:23 pm

enneamom wrote:

manyhats wrote:

I totally agree, Mom will just have to learn how to operate in the real world and cope with disappointments. You and DD should go on with your lives as if she has nothing to do with you. As long as there are enough people in the neighborhood (and you already asked a shaila to clarify this) there is nothing wrong with simply operating a good business, and the customers will go where they're happy. I feel sorry for Mom's parnassa worries, but there's no reason why she should be exempt from market conditions - if she runs her business well then she will get her customers, too. And if she doesn't she will have to develop the same attitudes that you're trying to help DD with and realize that parnassa comes from Hashem.

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