Super Lazy? Or? Please help!!!

mummiedearest

Fri, Apr 25 2014, 1:20 pm

my 7 yr old has a similar personality. he no longer does these things. I got firm with him over a year ago.

"it's your tushie, you wipe it. you will stay in the bathroom until your tushie is clean." and stick to it.

"get in the bath while I do xyz."

"if you don't take off your pjs, you're going to school that way."

he still "doesn't see things" and doesn't like to do things for himself, but he's much more independent now. he'll make himself a sandwich if I specify which kind to make (he doesn't like making decisions) and he'll sometimes clean up a room really nicely if it needs to be clean before we do a special activity. he runs his own bath/shower, and sometimes I have him run a bath for his younger sister. I let him read in bed and turn out his own light with guidelines (usually 10 pages) and he's gotten a lot more independent about bedtime.

don't get impatient with him. your son is probably going to be really slow at certain things because he's used to having you do it. eventually he'll realize that it's easier to just do things on his own than to beg you to do it for him.

amother

Fri, Apr 25 2014, 1:41 pm

mummiedearest wrote:

OP here. I'm glad someone 'gets' it!

The thing is I don't do things for him (I sometimes help him a little, more about that later) but need to tell him to do everything 20x before he eventually, with much pushing and prodding, finally gets said things done. At that point I'm truly exhausted! He keeps missing his school van, gets into pj's way too late, is always hungry at bedtime because he didn't remember to ask for a snack earlier etc. Food is a story on it's own as he's a very picky eater and whatever I offer him is no good.

Now, I often help him remove his top (he claims to not being able to remove his sleeves) as if I don't he'll never get undressed. Same goes for bathtime, if I don't help him undress he just won't ever get to the bath. Oh, just writing about it is giving me a headache..........!

mummiedearest

Fri, Apr 25 2014, 2:15 pm

amother wrote:

don't tell him 20 times. don't let him miss the van. put him on the bus in pjs. he'll remember that. don't allow him food past supper time. my kids know my rule. I allow them to be picky. they don't have to eat what I give them. but if they don't, I'm not making them anything else. sometimes they make themselves sandwiches, but I don't mind that. beyond supper, no food. if they find themselves hungry at bedtime, they need to start eating more at suppertime.

gets into pjs too late? make him get into bed in his clothing. he has to be in bed on time. if he wants to be in pjs, he has to get changed when you tell him to. won't undress for the bath? put him in the bath fully clothed. my dh did this a few times. my son hates it. he doesn't necessarily get undressed quickly for the bath these days, but he knows that after bath time comes computer game time. if he takes too long bathing, it cuts into computer game time because bedtime is non-negotiable. I don't repeat the request to get undressed, but I will tell him that if he takes more than x number of minutes, computer time will be shorter than he'd like. he's quicker than he used to be.

we got my son an alarm clock, and he sleeps through it. we use it, though. we wake him up and tell him he must get out of bed to turn off his own alarm. the clock itself is useful. I can say to him, "it is now 7:15. you need to be dressed before the clock says 7:25." he can check the clock and see how time is going. he has a hard time judging time without a visual. that's how our morning goes. we make him turn off his alarm. then we give him five minutes on the clock for going to the toilet, 10 minutes for getting dressed, 5 minutes for toothbrushing. then he's downstairs eating breakfast. I do use an incentive system. we call it the "positive paper" system, and it's for the whole family. we have 5 destinations we'd like to visit as a family (these are day trips). they can earn any number of little papers with a destination on each. at the end of the day, we give out these papers (they choose the destinations) and put them in a clear vase. when the vase is full, we pick a paper out and go there on a family trip. we can all reward each other positive papers for behaving nicely, doing something special, saying something positive, etc. the kids can reward each other and the adults. we are very generous with these papers. they can easily earn 20-30 in one morning before school if they choose to do everything they need to. every time we go on a trip, we remove that location from our options and add a new one. this is the only system that has worked with my kids for more than a week. it's been a few months already. the kids are still excited about it.

anyway, the positive papers work with the clock in the morning. they know that if they're out of bed in five minutes or less, they get five positive papers. each additional minute will lose a positive paper out of the potential five. so if it takes them six minutes, they get four papers. they're still being rewarded, but not as much as they could be.

don't give in when he asks you to take off his shirt. the only time I help my son with his shirt is when he's wearing a particular polo that has a stiff collar and relatively small opening for the head. he's gotten stuck in it a few times, but he wears it anyway. this doesn't bother me. anything beyond that is his job. I'm very blunt with my kids. I often tell them, "that's not my job, it's your job." I also use the "I'm not your servant" line. I talk to them about what I should be helping them with and what should be their responsibilities. it might help you to make a responsibility chart to hang on the wall of your son's room. don't make it an incentive chart, just a list. give it a positive title like "things I can do by myself." add something every once in a while.

feel free to pm me. I'd love to chat with another mom dealing with these issues.

amother

Sun, Apr 27 2014, 7:02 am

OP here. Thanks for typing all that up! You sound amazing!

Your post above actually had me LOL as I'm the one whom my friends always call for parenting advice, knowing what to do is one thing, carrying it out is another LOL

I guess we're all human...

I've actually tried a lot of what you wrote above so the reminders are very valuable! It also got my memory going and I remembered that I used to use a timer very successfully but then my timer broke and I forgot all about it. Will ask DH to buy a new one TODAY! Instead of checking the clock all the time I would tell DS 'you have until the timer runs out to complete xyz', it really got him going!

I also love your reward system! I was devising a system in my head yesterday but didn't know how to set the rules in a case that they don't actually follow instructions. I could just see DS saying 'oh well, I anyhow won't get a token so why rush', your system of awarding 5 tokens and then deducting one per minute prevents that feeling of faliure and keeps the motivation high. I can't wait to implement it, it's just perfect!

Thank you!

amother

Sun, Apr 27 2014, 7:09 am

seeker wrote:

Does he possibly have OT/coordination issues that might be making it harder to perform tasks such as dressing/undressing himself?

Could he be seeking your attention by asking you to do things for him and/or not doing what you ask (causing you to ask again/punish/give more negative attention)?

Does he have enough opportunities to take his own initiative in a motivating context, and feel capable and good about himself when achieving things?

Does he do this in school, too?

OP here.

A coordination issue crossed my mind but it doesn't show up in any other way so I'm not convinced that's the issue.

He gets a lot of positive attention but you never know. On several occasions if I felt he was doing it for attention then I said 'This behaviour is not acceptable. I'll talk to you once you behave' he hates it when I ignore him so he had to stop.

He does well in school, in fact he's at the top of his class, so he gets lots of positive attention and motivation from that. He is a middle child though but he was the youngest for five years and behaved like this at that time too.

mummiedearest

Sun, Apr 27 2014, 9:23 am

amother wrote:

LOL. do our kids correspond with each other secretly? my son has the exact same reaction to reward systems. are we related?

amother

Sun, Apr 27 2014, 10:03 am

mummiedearest wrote:

LOL. do our kids correspond with each other secretly? my son has the exact same reaction to reward systems. are we related?

OP here. With such an attititude to reward systems it's difficult to make progress, I love that your system is not an all or nothing.

Once when DS missed the van I told him he'd have to walk all the way (with an adult of course, it's at least a 20 min walk) but I couldn't take him in the morning and DH was very unhappy about having to walk all that way considering that he'd have to walk back too. So I told DS that we'll let it go this time and then I never mentioned it again. Now I finally got DH on board so if it happens again that's what we'd like to do. The bigger problem though is the tantrum that's bound to ensue. Does your son just cooperate with the repurcussions? I can just see DS kicking and screaming and causing a real public scene. The other day DH took him to school late and he didn't have a snack with him, he stood outside school and made such a scene that DH just brought him right back home.

mummiedearest

Sun, Apr 27 2014, 10:18 am

no, my ds does not cooperate with all repercussions. he does throw tantrums. I walk him to and from school almost every day. it's a few blocks away. however, my dh will sometimes drive him if we're running late or it's really that cold out. if my ds is just not in the mood to walk, he'll demand that papa drive him. then I have to put up with whining and crying the whole way to school, but I just ignore it. sometimes I can distract him by saying something silly or talking to him about something unrelated while walking, but sometimes he's just cranky. I tell him it's ok for him to be upset and not want to go to school as long as he actually goes. I tell him that going to school is his job right now. he doesn't have to love it, but he has to go.

about the 20 minute walk to school: my kids are used to very long walks. I walk everywhere with them. unless it's really cold out, a 20 minute walk is not considered a long walk for them. I know other kids their age who view walking down the block as a long walk because they are driven everywhere. if your kid is not used to a 20 minute walk, it is a huge trek for them. I would have also used that as a consequence, but I would have gotten my husband on board before declaring it. "papa, ds missed his bus. I think the best thing to do now would be to walk him to school. what do you think about that?" that allows dad to refuse. he can say, "I agree with you, but I think we should give him a warning first. how about I drive him today, and next time he walks." if you have this conversation in front of ds, he hears from your husband exactly what will happen next time. repeat the future consequences to ds. your dh can drive that one time without undermining your authority, which is what you do when you don't stick to a threat. we've had a number of those incidents around here. when we didn't follow through, our kids actually said, "well, I don't have to listen to you. you won't punish me anyway." fortunately, our kids have not figured out that if you want to be sneaky, you can't share your strategy with your parents. heh heh.

mummiedearest

Sun, Apr 27 2014, 10:28 am

oh, forgot to comment on the snack issue. if forgetting snack was your fault, tell him it's important to get to class on time and that you/dh will go right home and drop the snack off in the office. do this before a scene is made. if the lack of snack is his fault (his responsibility or some such), tell him that you will bring it just this once and that in the future you will not extend this courtesy. though judging by my own son, I wouldn't give him that responsibility for a few more years. the food will not make it to the knapsack if I ask him to pack it.

when a scene is already being made, calmly ignore it. if he's refusing to walk into the school building, calmly lift him and carry him in, kicking and screaming. deposit him in the classroom if necessary. your son is more likely to be embarrassed by his behavior in front of his classmates, he probably won't carry it on that far. and when you leave, he'll stop.

are you sure he really enjoys school, though? if he does that well, he may be bored. or he may do well on tests but not socialize that well, which plays out in classroom performance. talk to his teacher and find out what's going on. there's generally a reason behind a kid throwing fits in public. it may be something that you see as small, and it may have nothing to do with school. my son gets especially cranky if he hasn't had enough to drink, for example.

amother

Sun, Apr 27 2014, 10:34 am

OP here. B'h it wasn't a problem as we didn't have the discussion in front of him so it just seemed as though we decided to give him another chance. My kids are used to walking distances so 20 minutes is really not an issue, it's a significant repurcussion though as he is used to being driven with the school bus every morning. DH is not thrilled about it as it'll take away a portion of his morning so let's hope we won't need to resort to it. He does see it as necessary if the need arises so has agreed to go along with it.

I hate the tantrums though. DS can be very stubborn and has had tantrums until 4am in the past. B'h it's rare but at times like these he can become completely unreasonable.

I just managed to get a working timer to hand and am really excited about implementing it again. The main difficulty with kids like him is that you need to be CONSISTENT at all times regardless of everything else going on in your life, or they fall back.

amother

Sun, Apr 27 2014, 10:41 am

mummiedearest wrote:

OP here. Snack was his own fault as he didn't want anything offered to him. He is not responsible for preparing his own snack, not for a while. He later agreed to take what was originally offered. This is not a regular occurance though so I'm not terribly bothered about it.

As you can imagine, school is a story of it's own. He has a couple of hangups which we've tried to resolve. You guessed correctly that he's a little bored. We sorted that out a couple of months ago by sending extra workbooks with him to school with the teachers permission.

He does love school though and comes home happy.