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-> Judaism
-> Halachic Questions and Discussions
greenfire
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Mon, Jan 25 2016, 12:49 pm
so with other discussions going on as to what one can and cannot do on shabbos - I would seriously like to know how one may wipe themselves after using the bathroom on shabbos
all sorts of shailas come to mind:
ripping the tissue from wiping
colouring the tissue from body excrement
separating bad from good
aren't these all considered עברות
or do we ignore these things based on necessity ?
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yo'ma
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Mon, Jan 25 2016, 1:27 pm
greenfire wrote: | ripping the tissue from wiping I cut before shabbos
colouring the tissue from body excrement You could also do a bedika on shabbos
separating bad from good you're not separating, you're cleaning. do you clean your hands? |
the bedika thing would also be a question then
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FranticFrummie
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Mon, Jan 25 2016, 1:29 pm
Welcome back, Greenie!
"They see me trollin', they hatin'..."
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greenfire
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Mon, Jan 25 2016, 1:42 pm
the cutting before shabbos is not what I'm referencing ... when you wipe the paper undoubtedly tears
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5*Mom
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Mon, Jan 25 2016, 1:49 pm
I have no idea what inspired this post, but these are not issurim and necessity has nothing to do with it.
There is no issue with ripping if nothing constructive comes of it.
Coloring a disposable tissue incidental to cleaning is not an issur because there is no reason one would want to color a disposable tissue as it's used once and thrown away. (For an action to be assur on Shabbos it has to include 2 components: the same or similar action/method as was used in the mishkan; the same or similar intent as was used in the mishkan. The farther you get from these 2 components, the less likely the action is to be assur.)
What do you mean by separating bad from good? If you mean removing dirt from a surface, this is fundamentally different than borer, which involves a mixture of items.
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ven
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Mon, Jan 25 2016, 1:53 pm
We use cloth wipes , coloured patterns ! Let us all love the cloth tp!
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greenfire
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Mon, Jan 25 2016, 1:56 pm
5*Mom wrote: | I have no idea what inspired this post ... |
the fact that people delve into whether or not they should brush their teeth as forbidden work on shabbos & yet for convenience nobody ever seems to question bathroom wiping
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5*Mom
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Mon, Jan 25 2016, 2:03 pm
I didn't see that thread, but I'm confused by your premise. It's hard to argue that not brushing teeth on Shabbos involves no inconvenience.
But the answer is that brushing teeth (in certain ways) may involve actual melachot, while bathroom wiping does not. Hilchos Shabbos are not a random assortment of unrelated details. There is context, very clear principles and a logical development for what is and what is not allowed on Shabbos. It can be very confusing if not learned in context, from Av Melachot on down.
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water_bear88
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Mon, Jan 25 2016, 2:18 pm
In addition to what 5*mom said, I believe there's an idea of Kavod Habriot connected to wiping your tush that actually overrides הוצאה מרשות לרשות- I heard once you're allowed to carry toilet paper with you if you're walking outside of the eruv (obviously within the tchum Shabbat) and might need to relieve yourself. AYLOR if all opinions hold like this/whether this applies in r'shut harabim or only in a karmalit.
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Chana Miriam S
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Mon, Jan 25 2016, 5:56 pm
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miami85
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Mon, Jan 25 2016, 6:47 pm
Most of those "issurim" you mentioned fall under the 'kavod habrios" category--which apparently trumps a lot of issues on Shabbos. Even if you are in the hospital and have to deal with those automated movement tripped lights, you are allowed to use the bathroom under "kavod habrios" or if you are in a bathroom with no tissues, just toilet paper, there are ways of using the toilet paper b/c of kavod Habrios.
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gittelchana
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Mon, Jan 25 2016, 10:59 pm
greenfire wrote: | so with other discussions going on as to what one can and cannot do on shabbos - I would seriously like to know how one may wipe themselves after using the bathroom on shabbos
all sorts of shailas come to mind:
ripping the tissue from wiping
colouring the tissue from body excrement
separating bad from good
aren't these all considered עברות
or do we ignore these things based on necessity ? |
Probably depends whether it's the front or back. Whether you're a Nidda, in the 7 clean days or during times of Tahara. Whether you're pregnant, post-partum and not nursing, post-partum and nursing, nursing and not TTC, nursing and TTC.....
You get the picture. There are just too many variables for one single post. I'd have to write a whole book just on Hilchos wiping on Shabbos.
Oy..... Now I'm dizzy.....
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5*Mom
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Tue, Jan 26 2016, 2:47 am
miami85 wrote: | Most of those "issurim" you mentioned fall under the 'kavod habrios" category--which apparently trumps a lot of issues on Shabbos. |
Actually, no. None of the "issurim" mentioned are issurim and kavod habriyos has nothing to do with. Neither does convenience. They simply do not meet the criteria of any melacha.
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amother
Lavender
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Tue, Jan 26 2016, 6:59 am
Ever since I got a bidet I dont feel clean if I use a different toilet. And no shailos on this, Afaik...
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greenfire
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Tue, Jan 26 2016, 11:16 am
amother wrote: | Ever since I got a bidet I dont feel clean if I use a different toilet. And no shailos on this, Afaik... |
does it clean everything ? how do you get dry after a bidet ?
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amother
Lavender
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Tue, Jan 26 2016, 7:11 pm
It cleans everything, (when menstruating I even tilt myself so that area is sprayed in as well). Basically wait a couple min to dry, if not I just pull my panty on as is... its clean water anyway....
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CPenzias
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Tue, Jan 26 2016, 8:02 pm
I wipe with my hands. Then use very liquid soap jk
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MagentaYenta
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Tue, Jan 26 2016, 8:08 pm
amother wrote: | It cleans everything, (when menstruating I even tilt myself so that area is sprayed in as well). Basically wait a couple min to dry, if not I just pull my panty on as is... its clean water anyway.... |
Does your bidet work using only water pressure?
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shoshanim999
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Tue, Jan 26 2016, 8:55 pm
5*Mom wrote: | Actually, no. None of the "issurim" mentioned are issurim and kavod habriyos has nothing to do with. Neither does convenience. They simply do not meet the criteria of any melacha. |
Actually I learned that many of the shabbos bathroom issues are allowed because of kavod habriyos. I remember learning that anything that you don't need for shabbos is muktzah and the only reason that we can change a baby's dirty diaper is because of kavod habriyos since a dirty diaper is really muktzah.
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Chana Miriam S
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Tue, Jan 26 2016, 9:00 pm
CPenzias wrote: | I wipe with my hands. Then use very liquid soap jk |
So gross. Please tell me you aren't serious.
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