Important info about TammyTammy

redhot

Tue, Nov 20 2007, 9:49 am

Clarissa wrote:

greenfire wrote:

I happen to think tammy tammy had a lot of good points ... too bad not many of you see them ...

I agree. I said it before and I'll say it again, I liked her/him/it and I liked what she/he/it said.

I agree- and the more I read now of tammy's comments, the more im convinced that this person is extremely well learned, well educated and intelligent. ( as I read the comments I was thinking- this person might be a lawyer). but all that is from reading the comments after the fact. I didnt read many of the controversial threads as they were happening.

yersp

Tue, Nov 20 2007, 9:49 am

After reading thru 8 pages of posts, I think it's about time we just forget this TammyTammy/Sue charachter.

Clarissa

Tue, Nov 20 2007, 9:54 am

GR wrote:

I don't think you guys get it yet. Tammy started the thread about herself in Lubavitch forum, bashed herself, and then posted to everyone that Lubavitchers were bashing her.

And a bunch of you demanded that the Lubavitchers who bashed her apologize with some other insulting remarks. I personally feel that that calls for an apology.
The Lubavitch forum was wrongly accused with insults because Tammy messed with your heads.

If you don't think you (whoever you may be) owe an apology after you (whoever you may be) flung dirt at innocent people, then I think something is majorly wrong.

How you can like someone who messes with other people's heads in order to make certain people look bad, is beyond me.

Is Tammy exempt in your mind from the trouble she caused because she was sometimes funny and you liked some of her ideas? Does "funny" and "likeable" override being nice and doing the right thing?

Honestly, an apology from Tammy is worth about as much as any of her posts here, which are all garbage in my eyes. Someone who purposely deceives others, spends an entire thread (or 2 or more)posting to herself, tries to make a certain group of people look bad, and causes hurt feelings by her nasty raging posts, is not worth her weight in dung, as far as I'm concerned.

This is what I was afraid would happen. Whoever she was, she made some good points, and now everyone that disagreed with the points she made wants to say it was all dung. Those that agreed with her, say her points were still valid. Just a way of continuing this.

If I read an article, I don't know the author. It may be a real person, it may be a fictional person, but if I think his/her points are well-researched, intelligently offered and valid, I will concur. Whether or not Tammy was real, somebody would have to dissect everything she said and prove that she didn't make one valid or intelligent argument here. Quite a lot of work.

GR wrote:

I don't think you guys get it yet. Tammy started the thread about herself in Lubavitch forum, bashed herself, and then posted to everyone that Lubavitchers were bashing her.

We get it. That was wrong.

GR wrote:

And a bunch of you demanded that the Lubavitchers who bashed her apologize with some other insulting remarks. I personally feel that that calls for an apology.

So you're saying that those that demanded apologies from those that didn't apologize should apologize apologetically to those who weren't apologists for those who don't apologize to people who don't need to apologize apologetically?

This is getting a mite confusing. But I doubt you're going to be seeing apologies of any kind, any time soon.

Nobody seems to be in an apologetic mood, except the famous fictional TammyTammy.

leomom

Tue, Nov 20 2007, 9:54 am

um..... I may just be getting paranoid here.... but has anyone else noticed that Motek has not posted once on this thread? And she has not logged on in the past 24 hours (so, OK, she could just be away and not know about what's going on here).

Motek has been a member since almost the beginning of Imamother and certainly is an established personality here.... but she also fits several of the characteristics of sophisticated trolls (no personal info, strong opinions on controversial subjects - many of which she starts herself - and an often divisive attitude).

Sorry, but at this point I trust no one, and Motek has always been in a category of her own... I have often wondered whether she was hired by Yael to get conversations and debate going!

If anyone knows her personally, please set me straight so I can start trusting humanity again. Confused

Tehilla

Tue, Nov 20 2007, 9:58 am

I know someone who met her IRL. But I'm not saying who, cause it isn't my business to release the info. She can if she wants. But rest assured, Motek is a real woman.

mimivan

Tue, Nov 20 2007, 10:00 am

yy:
I have no concrete proof, but I take exception to what you wrote about Motek and Yael...I would feel the need to apologize if I had said such things on a public forum. Motek is opinionated, but that seems to be the way she is...Is every person with strong opinions a troll??
You could say the same about many of us on here with strong opinions...there are others who like to stir debate and controversy...does that make them intellectually stimulated people who like a good debate or mere trolls??

(I hope not everyone like this is a troll..every news program would be nothing but trolls, in that case...)

Tehilla

Tue, Nov 20 2007, 10:03 am

Yeah, this is really getting silly. Can't someone bury the thread...start a new topic of conversation...

Carry on people, it's like adding fuel to the fire if we keep up this way.

technic

Tue, Nov 20 2007, 10:03 am

motek is 100% real

gryp

Tue, Nov 20 2007, 10:04 am

Quote:

It wasn't just a demand for apologies. There were some nasty remarks there too. I'm sure the posters can remember what they wrote.

Personally I don't need an apology. I don't need them at all to tell you the truth. If someone acts sorry, in my mind, they are sorry. If they don't, they're not.

That doesn't mean they don't owe an apology though. It's very telling when someone was wrong and they don't even have the courtesy to apologize.

Clarissa, as someone who has asked others for an apology more than once on the board, I would think you would be behind posters apologizing for falsely accusing others with nasty comments on the side.

yy- Motek isn't the only one who hasn't posted in this thread. And she's not a troll either.

Apple pie

Tue, Nov 20 2007, 10:07 am

I agree that Tammy's posts were intelligent, and many of her arguments are worth considering, regardless of who she/she is.

But this makes the fact that she "played" with other identities and purposely tried to put a certain group of people in a bad light even more disappointing.

That said, I agree with Rosycheeks, I think it's time to move on...

chocolate moose

Tue, Nov 20 2007, 10:09 am

I'm very real.

And I can vouch for Tehilla, Bas Hinda, momof3, Roza, Picklelady, PurpleRox, PinkTichel, happymom.....TzenaUrena.......

Clarissa

Tue, Nov 20 2007, 10:10 am

GR wrote:

[
Clarissa, as someone who has asked others for an apology more than once on the board, I would think you would be behind posters apologizing for falsely accusing others with nasty comments on the side.

I may ask for 'em, but I sure ain't getting 'em. People here aren't fond of saying they're sorry. You know the old saying -- "imamother means never having to say you're sorry."

By the way, in addition to requesting apologies, I do give some. Sometimes as amother, but trust me, I do. In any event, I still hold that no apologies are forthcoming, so before people continue to accuse each other of being fake, accuse Motek of being a spy or a man, accuse Technic of being a goofball like me, accuse Yael of hiring people to mess with our heads, accuse this site of being nothing but a fake board whose only purpose is to advertise mohels, we need to get control of ourselves.

Last edited by Clarissa on Tue, Nov 20 2007, 10:13 am; edited 1 time in total

Squash

Tue, Nov 20 2007, 10:12 am

[quote="Clarissa fake board whose only purpose is to advertise mohels, we need to get control of ourselves.[/quote]

I only read the first few posts on this thread, and this last one.

Rolling Laughter

Thanks for the laughh!

Now I can go on with my day.

Garden

Tue, Nov 20 2007, 10:15 am

This is unreal! I never used to read her/his comments because I found them extremely offensive of my hashkafos but to find out after all this time that it was all a fake...I just feel very bad for him/her. It must be very hard living a double life.

Mitzvahmom

Tue, Nov 20 2007, 10:16 am

chocolate moose wrote:

I'm very real.

And I can vouch for Tehilla, Bas Hinda, momof3, Roza, Picklelady, PurpleRox, PinkTichel, happymom.....TzenaUrena.......

and me????

gryp

Tue, Nov 20 2007, 10:20 am

Quote:

I may ask for 'em, but I sure ain't getting 'em. People here aren't fond of saying they're sorry. You know the old saying -- "Imamother means never having to say you're sorry."

Still doesn't excuse the other posters.
And I don't get the people who think she's funny, smart, and intelligent, when she purposely hurt so many people by playing her nasty trick. What counts in this world, really?

It struck me yesterday how similar Tammy and Sue are when I read Tammy's old post about not believing a blue door in front of her is blue. Yeah, neither would Sue. Rolling Eyes

At any rate, I've moved past this. I've said my piece and those who want to do the right thing will. Or they won't.

nicole81

Tue, Nov 20 2007, 10:20 am

there are a lot of active posters who haven't posted on this thread... what's the point?

Yael

Tue, Nov 20 2007, 10:25 am

I'm going to lock this thread for now.
I have recieved an email from tammytammy but am waiting for confirmation of one piece of the puzzle before I post it.
I will keep you updated.

Yael

Tue, Nov 20 2007, 1:37 pm

this is the apology I recieved from tammytammy.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To all my former fellow Imamothers,

I'm afraid the story that you have heard is true; Sue and I were
"written" by the same person, although we are far from one and the
same.

The Tammy persona is, in fact, my real persona. I tend to lean toward
Modern Orthodox, try to be reasonable and respectful to all, and love
to debate. And therein lies part of the problem.

I originally set up the Sue character as a foil for myself. She was
never meant to be a real person -- she was actually a caricature, not
a character or a real person. While I chose a Chabad persona for her,
it was never my intent to bash Chabad or make the movement look bad --
she was really supposed to represent the
"ultra-ultra-ultra-fundamentalist," and could just as easily have been
Chassidish, Litvish, yeshivish or belonged to almost any other group.

She was just a way for me to express my disbelief at some of the more
fundamentalist notions that members of our community hold. I chose to
express that disbelief through her, rather than by attacking any real
person on the boards. (Even as Sue, I tried to make sure to never
personally actually attack a real person other than myself.) It was
never my intention to use Sue to have a joke at your expense.

Unfortunately, I took her to far. I began over-playing the
fundamentalist position of Sue and it went from being a simple foil to
a character of hatred -- something that I found myself not liking.
I'd like to say that I consciously outed myself by complaining about
myself, but that is probably being too charitable. It was simply a
persona that I took too far and, perhaps, subconsciously, this way my
way of ending it.

In many ways, I'm glad it's over. I found that I don't like writing
as "Sue" and, because I have the need to get "inside the character's
head," to write in a particular style, I found myself not liking the
way I was becoming when I was writing as her. In reality, I am a
pretty even-tempered person who is easy to get along with and tries to
respect others even when I deeply disagree with them; and Sue's style
is just too... hateful for me. I much prefer writing in my natural
style, the style you've come to know over the last few months.

It was not my intent to make any particular group or the board as a
whole look bad. I want to ask for forgiveness with a full heart of
anyone who felt that I made them look bad or who was hurt by my
comments; especially the Chabad segment of Imamother. As I said
earlier, I didn't choose Chabad for her with the intention of making
the movement look bad; she could have belonged to any of a dozen other
groups. That simply wasn't my goal when I started or even at the end.
Even in the post where I finally complained about myself, I didn't
specify which private board the complaint thread began.

I tried to make sure that, as Sue, any attacks I made were against
myself only. As Tammy, to the best of my knowledge, I never attacked
anyone. I am very sorry that I have deceived you and that incited
strife on the boards. It was wrong, and something I deeply regret
doing.

I would also like to apologize to Yael. I know that setting up and
maintaining these boards have taken a lot of work and dedication on
her part, and I am sorry that I have caused this to happen on her
boards.

While I ask you all for forgiveness, I certainly don't expect everyone
to forgive me, and I can understand anyone who bears a grudge against
me. I only hope that in time you can find it in your hearts to
forgive, even if you can't forget.

Anything I said as Tammy was meant by me with a full heart. Aside
from a few posts where Sue broke character, anything said by her was
not what I feel or believe.

I originally joined Imamother because I found it to be a vibrant,
dynamic community with a wide range of opinions on Judaism. It still
is, and I am saddened by the fact that I have excluded myself from it.
I will not be back on these boards under another name at another IP
address... I have caused enough trouble and deeply regret it. I will
not trouble you any further.

Thank you to those who have befriended me and stood by me during my
time on the boards, and my deepest apologies to those whom I hurt.

Tammy