mezonos vs hamotzi

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Forum -> Judaism -> Halachic Questions and Discussions

Mezonos vs hamotzi

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greenfire

Thu, Nov 22 2007, 12:40 pm

I have trouble understanding why this happens ... there are those who use "mezonos" bread - yet will wash for pizza cause it is a meal ... I have learned that even cakes if eaten in large quantities you must say hamotzi cause it is no longer a snack but a meal ...

chocolate moose

Thu, Nov 22 2007, 1:02 pm

Mezonos bread is great for a picnic where you don't have water to wash. I think a lot of it is sold and used due to laziness, however.

How is the crust of the pizza made, with apple juice or with water?

greenfire

Thu, Nov 22 2007, 1:11 pm

a sandwich is a meal ... so it moots the point

chocolate moose

Thu, Nov 22 2007, 1:16 pm

a sandwich can be snack. depends who and what.

cookielady

Thu, Nov 22 2007, 1:22 pm

People abuse mezonos bread. I have seen people eat 2 mezonos rolls and call it a snack. 8)

Ruchel

Thu, Nov 22 2007, 1:29 pm

Yup, some only wash the hands if it's a seuda (like some only eat in the sukka if it's a seuda, so they hardly do it unless they make the "effort" to make the meal a seuda).

Mrs. XYZ

Thu, Nov 22 2007, 1:38 pm

It is a big problem and there are many rabanim that are against all these mezonos rolls/bread because nobody really eats it as a snack. Its eaten for lunch and people are lazy to wash and bentch. really sad.

greenfire

Thu, Nov 22 2007, 1:42 pm

that is my point ... so where then does it come to be to wash for pizza ... 2 opposites ...

shalhevet

Thu, Nov 22 2007, 1:53 pm

greenfire wrote:

that is my point ... so where then does it come to be to wash for pizza ... 2 opposites ...

Pizza is the same idea - if it's a meal it's hamotzi, and if it's a snack (like just eating one triangle by itself) it's mezonos. The halacha might be different if there's no water in the dough.

I learned the same for 'mezonos' bread. If you just eat a roll as a snack it's mezonos. But once it has a savoury filling (and certainly if it's with a meal), it's a meal).

But please ask your own LOR, because these halachos are very complex.

greenfire

Thu, Nov 22 2007, 1:59 pm

my issue is that I know people who will only wash for pizza (a meal) and then not wash for a sandwich (also a meal) if with mezonos bread ... I find that ... complex

baba

Thu, Nov 22 2007, 2:01 pm

There's a book called "vezot habracha" that brings all these halachot down clearly. In general, for both there isnt a clearcut ruling, but rather it's a clearcut machloket. As for pizza, it also depends wether it was made with fruitjuice or not. In the end, the book often said it's still better to be machmir and our rav agrees. Anything that you're using as bread, even if it is 100% mezonot (like a boreka, maluach or a croissant) you should wash. We even wash on those little mezonot roles you get in the plane!

chocolate moose

Thu, Nov 22 2007, 2:14 pm

Some rabbonim say it's a shaylah to wash on a mezonos thingy, even if you eat a lot of it.

It DEF takes some looking into.

Mrs. XYZ

Thu, Nov 22 2007, 2:17 pm

chocolate moose wrote:

Some rabbonim say it's a shaylah to wash on a mezonos thingy, even if you eat a lot of it.

It DEF takes some looking into.

right, so the ones who really want to be machmir, will first eat a bite (or kezayis) of hamotzi bread.

baba

Thu, Nov 22 2007, 2:19 pm

chocolate moose wrote:

It DEF takes some looking into.

That for sure is the conclusion. And I guess that also kinda answers your question greenfire, most people do not look into it and dont even realise how complicated the matter is and so what they do might not always seem very logical

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