Hard time signing that im ok with school rules

amother

Floralwhite

Sun, Jul 19 2020, 12:40 am

I am an extremely honest person and my kids see that by my actions. But I sign those school forms even though its lying.

The way I see it is that they are making us sign forms that they know at least 50-75% of the parents will have to lie. Theyre not being realistic about their parent body and they know we have no other options. So if theyre asking me to sign something with the expectation that its not true, well, they got what they asked for.

amother

Aubergine

Sun, Jul 19 2020, 12:42 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Im cracking up that this has 3 thumbs up. You seriously think that out of their parent body of hundreds they're gonma get riled up about my asterisk PSA? They will almost 100% ignore it cuz ive been in the school a while and have given zero issues. And if the principal wants to call me to dicuss im happy to have that conversation.
I just don't see why lying would be ok but maybe im wrong. It seems like everyone is saying to just sign it...

So is this new for this year? I send to bais faga and don’t remember signing anything like that.

Also I see you got a hug so I hope you’re feeling better now.

amother

Cerise

Sun, Jul 19 2020, 12:51 am

I signed a form for my daughter when she was accepted to H.S. stipulating that she would have 0 internet access, which was the case at that time. Fast forward to Coronavirus lockdown, and she was getting email assignments from her school, and all her friends were on Zoom (even those from her school) and I would not allow her to participate until I discussed it with her school. (I wouldn’t even allow her to check and reply to her school’s emails - I read/printed them out for her and scanned her assignments to return, etc.) I did however reach the principal of her school, who (after discussion) gave me the green light to use my own discretion during this extraordinary situation and not consider myself bound by whatever I had initially signed (for the duration of this crisis). My daughter was not thrilled to be banned from the internet, while all her friends were on it, but I explained that I don’t know what their parents’ agreement was with the school - but, if I sign something I keep my word, and I do not sneak around.

I think if you think you have an expectation that you can comply with what you are agreeing to, then go ahead and sign it. If unforeseen circumstances (e.g. another Corona lockdown) arise, you can work something out with the school. If you have no plans to comply with what you are agreeing to, then you should not sign it. What kind of message does it send your daughter - if you do not keep your word?

amother

Denim

Sun, Jul 19 2020, 12:58 am

amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:

ITA. And imo, schools are stepping out of their bounds to set up rules for outside of school, even more so on the parents. So while I'm honest as I come everywhere else, for these things I have no problem lying.

The schools are definitely within their bounds to set up rules within their walls, so for those I comply whether or not I agree with them. As long as my hashkafa aligns with the school and the majority of rules I'm in agreement with, then that's good enough for me. If I'd have a problem with a good many of the rules, then I'd know that the place is not for me. But otherwise, I don't believe the schools have any place in telling me that my 4 year old needs to be wearing tights when not in school, or that she can't wear black tights on Shabbos, or telling me what phone I can or cannot have. So for those things, if I have to lie, then so be it.

Mothers

Sun, Jul 19 2020, 1:02 am

amother [ Floralwhite ] wrote:

How can you be extremely honest, if you are signing something when you have no intention of keeping your word? If your kids know about this - then the actions they are seeing are disingenuous and less than honest. . .

I agree that the schools should not ask parents to commit to something that is not realistic, but that does not make your signing it any more honest. (Whether or not other parents are honest is irrelevant and does not affect the honesty of your actions.) You recognize yourself that this is lying, and if you are actually an extremely honest person, you may want to rethink this . .

Last edited by Mothers on Sun, Jul 19 2020, 1:10 am; edited 1 time in total

Mothers

Sun, Jul 19 2020, 1:09 am

amother [ Denim ] wrote:

There are school rules, which I do not agree with, but I would never allow my daughter to break them. Schools can choose to make whatever rules they want, and parents can choose to send or not send to that school, however, choosing to send to a school and then allowing a child to break the rules, sends very mixed messages, which may result in the child to not absorbing the messages you want.

ExtraCredit

Sun, Jul 19 2020, 1:18 am

amother [ Pink ] wrote:

Sorry but bli neder just means that you are saying yes to the rule without promising. Like if you make a mistake or something. Not if you never plan to put your kid in long socks. Choose to not send it back or send it back and go with the rules. You live in Lakewood, how hard can it be to follow them? Lying is assur....and bad chinuch. Doesnt matter of the school expects you to do that. Actually it does matter that that’s what they expect- terrible chinuch for the kids. How will they learn to be honest when filling out employment forms etc when they are older? Everyone lies about stuff on forms so they’ll assume it’s ok??

Signing without bli neder calls for this reply of yours.
Adding the words bli neder is like saying that I’ll try but I can’t promise. I really think it’s a good choice of words and davka does show honesty.

amother

Bisque

Sun, Jul 19 2020, 1:19 am

Tzinius is taught really strongly in school - starting primary. It will be hard for your dd to hear in school you must dress one way. And Mommy says you don’t have to. It creates a confusion. Maybe nothing my teachers say is true.
Bumping into classmates or teachers outside of school can be uncomfortable for your dd if not following rules.
You will earn a rule breaker label that will follow her and make high school entry difficult and entry to other schools difficult if you still need (like boys).
Most daycamps in Lakewood require the same dress code so it’s not like summers are different. (Unless you send to backyard camp with similarvtupe families).
If your school requires tights then you are really sending to a right Wing school because most litvish schools don’t require that. So expect many more rules and much frummer crowd.
Ppl have invested tremendous amount of energy and time into creating schools. They aren’t community schools. The owners create the rules to give an impression of the parent body they are looking for. If you can’t do that expect to have push back.

amother

Burlywood

Sun, Jul 19 2020, 9:27 am

amother [ Bisque ] wrote:

This is a good point.. the Lakewood schools my kids go to have minimal, if any, rules outside of school. But they expect you to respect their rules when in school. Which we absolutely do.

Chayalle

Sun, Jul 19 2020, 12:10 pm

My kids always tell me I'm the only one who complies to all school rules. But yes, once my kids started primary they wore knee socks and sleeves that covered their elbows. (I can't say about the inches below their knee out of school. I had them covering their knees. But I never signed that I would do 4 inches below the knee.)

And I also don't give them online access. I haven't found it to be an issue with them transitioning to the workplace after seminary and handling online access safely. If anything, it made it easier for them to be appropriate, because they use it when it's age appropriate.

amother

Blue

Sun, Jul 19 2020, 4:10 pm

Op, are you a very literal black aNd white, right and wrong person? You sound so sweet and sincere but I don’t think you should take all the rules to the next level.

Look around at the good enough families and follow their lead if there’s a rule you’re particularly having a hard time with reach out to a respectable well balanced older person that could guide you.

I needed to sign that dd won’t join any out of school programs like dance swim etc...I took it so serious until I found out that they don’t even mean the rule seriously. Most of the students were enrolled in after school programs anyway.

Good luck!