Finally, an intelligent article on masks

trixx

Tue, Jul 28 2020, 11:20 am

https://www.conservativereview.....ates/

#BestBubby

Tue, Jul 28 2020, 5:00 pm

Here is the article that mask mandates are Anti-Science:

Horowitz: Exposing the maskerade: The questions every American should be asking about indefinite mask mandates

The trope of “just shut up and wear a mask” is not science, ordered liberty, or constitutional governance. It’s what they do in North Korea. We need real debate on the effectiveness of masks, the type of masks, the situations in which they are worn, the duration of time, the benchmarks that need to be met to measure effectiveness, and the process for promulgating these rules. We are no longer 24 hours into an emergency. We are four months into this virus, and it’s time to function like the representative republic that we are.

There are numerous political and scientific questions any thinking person should be asking at this point:

Why did the CDC, World Health Organization, and such luminaries as Fauci and Surgeon General Jerome Adams so emphatically dismiss the effectiveness of masks, then flip 180 degrees to the point where they shame people who don’t wear them, without ever explaining what changed?

While we learn more about the virus every day, the micro-biology of the particles hasn’t changed, and the premise that non-professional masks worn by non-trained professionals run the risk of counterproductive cross-contamination did not change.

The suggestion that this is needed to protect others raises the obvious question: If me not wearing a mask transmits the virus to others who are wearing a mask, then is that not an admission that masks do not work to stop a respiratory virus that is microscopic and gets through the mask? Garbage in, garbage out. It makes no sense to suggest it doesn’t penetrate the transmitter’s mask from inside-out, especially with the air pressure of a cough or sneeze, but can penetrate the mask of the receiver through suspended molecules that are stagnant without pressure pushing those molecules outside-in to the receiver. If anything, the opposite should be true – it should be more effective for protection of yourself.

How can mask-wearing work when everyone just stores them in their pockets to collect bacteria, as our government officials predicted from day one?

How could kids ever keep it clean and not collect more bacteria, and where is the evidence that children are even a vector for viral transmission? My home county is mandating that even two-year-olds wear masks. How can anyone suggest that children can keep them clean, and where is the evidence that young children are a vector for transmitting the virus, when numerous studies from other countries have shown the opposite?

Mask-wearing in all of the major cities – from Los Angeles to Miami – has been in place and followed by pressure and community shaming for months. Compliance in most of these places has been off the charts, according to the NYT. Yet the virus is still spreading more than before the mandate. The virus is now spreading in Japan, Hong Kong, and the Philippines, which have near universal mask-wearing. At what point does the mask cult have to provide evidence of the effectiveness of these unconstitutional mandates, and at what point do benchmarks have to be met to maintain such a draconian and life-altering requirement?

Do masks that are continuously reused, cross-contaminated, and not properly disposed of become a trap to further transmit the virus or become retainers for other pathogens – or at the very least for bacteria, which are larger than viruses – that can harm the mask-wearer and others alike?

What are the known side effects to one’s health after wearing these masks for hours on end in the heat, especially for children in school? Does long-term mask-wearing lower oxygen levels and compromise our immune systems?

Do masks cause people to touch their faces more often, the exact opposite of what was originally the desired result?

To suggest that individuals be forced into something so personal as covering their own faces indefinitely under the guise of protecting other people is a huge, dramatic change in the relationship between the government and the citizen. We should at minimum get clarity on these questions before allowing any executive authority to unilaterally decree it. Doesn’t the near-universal opposition to widespread mask-wearing from these very same “experts” before the issue became political hold any weight? Doesn’t their reversal demand explanation?

To this day, there has never been a clinical study with randomized controlled trials in non-health-care settings that vouch for the effectiveness of universal mask-wearing in public. All we have so far are anecdotes and laboratory filtration studies, not real human-to-human studies. When asked about conducting one, Dr. Fauci said there is no intention to do so. In fact, he went from resolutely dismissing the idea of wearing masks in March to now telling a group of Georgetown University students that he couldn’t even conduct a study because he was so scared of having even a study group go without masks!

Thus, we are told we are not allowed to breathe free air without a mask – no studies allowed. Fauci’s view? No votes, no hearings, no debate, no studies, no time limits, no performance benchmarks. Shut up and cover your mouth indefinitely and don’t you dare express the view he used to espouse … or else.

Until now, the only time mask use has ever been a studied in a non-health-care setting showed the opposite of what the political class is saying. As Dr. Andrew Bostom of Brown University wrote earlier this month:

Moreover, a subsequent pooled (so-called “meta-”) analysis of ten controlled trials assessing extended, real-world, non-health-care-setting mask usage revealed that masking did not reduce the rate of laboratory-proven infections with the respiratory virus influenza. The findings from this unique report — published May 2020 by the CDC’s own “house journal” “Emerging Infectious Diseases” — are directly germane to the question of masking to prevent COVID-19 infection and merit some elaboration.

One study evaluated mask usage by Hajj pilgrims to Mecca, two university-setting studies assessed the efficacy of face masks for prevention of confirmed influenza among student campus residents over five months of surveillance, and seven household studies examined the impact of masking infected persons only (one), household contacts of infected persons only (one), or both groups (five). None of these studies, individually, or their aggregated, pooled analysis, which enhanced the overall “statistical power” to detect smaller effects, demonstrated a significant benefit of masking for the reduction of confirmed influenza infection (also see tabulation). The authors further concluded with a caution that using face masks improperly might “increase the risk for (viral) transmission.”

As doctors from the Department of Infectious Diseases and Microbiology at Children’s Hospital at Westmead in Sydney, Australia, concluded in arguing against even health care workers wearing surgical masks when treating low‐risk patients, “There is no good evidence that facemasks protect the public against infection with respiratory viruses, including COVID‐19.”

They explain how the way most people use masks could actually become counterproductive:

One danger of doing this is the illusion of protection. Surgical facemasks are designed to be discarded after single use. As they become moist they become porous and no longer protect. Indeed, experiments have shown that surgical and cotton masks do not trap the SARS‐CoV‐2 (COVID‐19) virus, which can be detected on the outer surface of the masks for up to 7 days. Thus, a pre‐symptomatic or mildly infected person wearing a facemask for hours without changing it and without washing hands every time they touched the mask could paradoxically increase the risk of infecting others.

They cite a “desperate situation” in the U.S. as the impetus for the CDC’s reversal on masks and note that it is based on “scant” evidence. Which is why, “In contrast, the World Health Organization currently recommends against the public routinely wearing facemasks.”

#BestBubby

Tue, Jul 28 2020, 5:24 pm

Summary of article:

"just shut up and wear a mask" is not supported by science or our constitution (freedom).
That's what they do in North Korea (tyranny).

The CDC, WHO, Faucci, Surgeon General were all opposed to masks for months, then suddenly ALL did a complete reversal. THIS WAS NOT BASED ON ANY NEW SCIENCE!!!

Masks are mandated based on the LIE that wearing masks is more for protecting others than oneself. This makes NO SENSE. If a mask is powerful enough to stop the virus from being expelled by a sneeze or cough then it is even MORE POWERFUL to protect someone from inhaling the virus from stagnant air. Thus there is NO MORAL argument for FORCING people to wear masks against there will. Especially as Masks may cause HARM to the wearer - by reducing oxygen and by exposing the wearer to virus and bacteria from the mask.

Wearing Masks can SPREAD Covid: Masks are supposed to be SINGLE USE but most people re-use CONTAMINATED masks. People also keep TOUCHING Contaminated Masks!

There has never been a clinical study with randomized controlled trials in non-health-care settings that vouch for the effectiveness of universal mask-wearing in public. All we have so far are anecdotes and laboratory filtration studies, not real human-to-human studies.

Dr. Fauci opposes doing a randomized real life study on mask effectiveness - saying it is unethical. How can it be unethical when for months Dr. Fauci said MASKS DON'T WORK???

Even in cities with near 100% mask compliance, masks have NOT stopped the spread of
Covid!

An analysis of TEN controlled trials proved that masks DO NOT reduce the spread of respiratory virus! This was published in May 2020 by the CDC!

Conclusion: There is NO SCIENCE that supports that masks stop the spread of Covid so there is no moral justification for Mandating Masks.

imorethanamother

Tue, Jul 28 2020, 6:29 pm

trixx wrote:

https://www.conservativereview.com/news/horowitz-exposing-maskerade-questions-every-american-asking-indefinite-mask-mandates/

I really don’t know why this is such a hot button issue. What does it hurt you to wear a mask? Let’s pretend the science doesn’t support mask wearing. Let’s pretend (because it does).

https://www.thelancet.com/jour.....-6736(20)31142-9/fulltext

https://med.stanford.edu/news/......html

If it makes all the elderly people in your neighborhood just feel better, why wouldn’t you do it? Why purposely hurt other people for such a small, trifling thing?

southernbubby

Tue, Jul 28 2020, 6:41 pm

It obviously blocks some germs or doctors wouldn't wear them to perform surgery.
I just did my cardiac stress test while wearing a mask.
I think that they do prevent some viral transmission and prefer stores where people wear masks.

amother

Indigo

Tue, Jul 28 2020, 6:50 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

Four months ago we were told that masks dont work, we shouldnt bother wearing them. Then we were told that masks do work and it became mandatory to wear them. So if the masks work then why are we spending billions of dollars to develop a vaccine? And once the vaccine will be ready then will we be told that masks dont really work and be forced to take the vaccine or will we be allowed to choose to wear a mask instead of taking the vaccine?

amother

Coral

Tue, Jul 28 2020, 6:53 pm

amother [ Indigo ] wrote:

If seatbelts work, why do we have to have a license to drive?

#BestBubby

Tue, Jul 28 2020, 6:55 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

1. Masks may make you sick because they are germy. People re-use masks even though they are supposed to be changed frequently.

2. Masks may be harmful because they reduce oxygen. Many people get headaches, feel dizzy, faint when wearing masks.

3. Allowing government to FORCE people to do something to make other people feel better??? That is TYRANNY. What next will government force because of someone's
"feelings"????

amother

Maroon

Tue, Jul 28 2020, 7:04 pm

southernbubby wrote:

Yes surgery where the skin aka the immune systems fist line of defense is open! The mask is supposed to mimic skin on the most superficial level by acting as something meant to block droplets. That is a very specific benefit that doesn't apply to this scenario.

I'm waiting to see real facts to support mask wearing. Right now there's very little if any, and mandatory masks without reliable facts is borderline tyranny.

I don't know if you've seen all these pictures of petri dishes, masked vs unmasked showing full of bacteria or no bacteria. Things like this are being shown all over the media to support wearing masks. And it would support masks, ONLY WE ARE DEALING WITH A VIRUS! That's actual propaganda.

It's really disturbing to see people fight something with very little science behind it so venomously.

amother

Indigo

Tue, Jul 28 2020, 7:07 pm

amother [ Coral ] wrote:

If seatbelts work, why do we have to have a license to drive?

First, you get your license after you learn how to drive. Second, your license is an identification that says you know how to drive which you need in case you get into an accident and your seatbelt doesnt work. So what are you suggesting? That we vaccinate and wear a mask for the rest of our lives?That the mask will only work until there is a vaccine and then it wont work anymore? Otherwise what are you trying to say with your comparison?

trixx

Tue, Jul 28 2020, 7:26 pm

imorethanamother wrote:

1. " it's just 2 weeks."
6 months later, 40% of small business shuttered, no school in sept

"It's just a mask"
-Not allowed to fly without it.
-Any FACE COVERING is considered a mask. Welcome to burqa America. Consider the damage to deaf people, children being kidnapped and criminals who can't be identified

"Oh just kidding Masks don't work, take the vaccine we fast tracked, already had 5 deaths in trials, and incidentally is for a virus with over 96% survival rate"

2. Its not hurting anyone if it doesn't work.

3. My body, my choice when it comes to a 3rd trimester post birth abortion without pain relief (ie murder) but not when it comes to my breathing ability? I don't care what study you throw at me. It's 90+ degrees, no matter what your dumb oxygen machine says, I cannot breathe.

4. If masks worked, why didn't we keep the criminals in prison and mask them up?

Wake up, sheeple.

southernbubby

Tue, Jul 28 2020, 7:39 pm

amother [ Maroon ] wrote:

Countries with mask laws seem to have the virus under better control. I don't trust RW media for medical decisions because it is more concerned with rights than with science. If I fly anywhere, I believe that it's safer to wear masks. I believe that it's the sheeple who get their medical information from these sites.

amother

Maroon

Tue, Jul 28 2020, 8:52 pm

southernbubby wrote:

What is this belief??? If you cannot supply facts then why are you throwing around the name sheeple? The article mentioned those countries. There are cases there despite the masks. So again why are you pushing beliefs? Mamesh a getchke!

southernbubby

Tue, Jul 28 2020, 8:57 pm

amother [ Maroon ] wrote:

I don't believe these articles.

amother

Maroon

Tue, Jul 28 2020, 9:05 pm

southernbubby wrote:

I don't believe these articles.

Why are you pushing the mask?! Supply facts not beliefs.

#BestBubby

Tue, Jul 28 2020, 9:31 pm

southernbubby wrote:

Countries with mask laws seem to have the virus under better control.

Nope. Countries with the lowest mask wearing like Norway, Sweden and Finland fared better than countries with the highest mask wearing like Spain and Italy.

amother

Taupe

Tue, Jul 28 2020, 9:33 pm

southernbubby wrote:

I don't trust LW media for medical decisions because they are more concerned about staying in power and furthering their agenda than with science.

amother

Coral

Tue, Jul 28 2020, 9:35 pm

amother [ Indigo ] wrote:

Your argument is that we never need more than one safety measure, and it's absurd. It's not black and white, works or doesn't work. Each reduces risk somewhat.

southernbubby

Tue, Jul 28 2020, 9:35 pm

amother [ Taupe ] wrote:

I don't trust LW media for medical decisions because they are more concerned about staying in power and furthering their agenda than with science.

I don't believe that either.

imorethanamother

Tue, Jul 28 2020, 9:37 pm

amother [ Indigo ] wrote:

Stop looking for conspiracy theories. Four months ago (actually five), China had practically shut down, and since they were the primary source of most of our medical supplies, there was a push from the CDC and the WHO to not wear masks, so that they could be saved for medical professionals. If you recall, at the time, there was a lot of hoarding and a ton of medical professionals had to reuse supplies.

Right now, the CDC and WHO are telling everyone not to test so often, but that's because they want to conserve tests. It's still a preferable indicator of who can return to work after a positive Covid test, rather than counting days from start of infection.

And yes, we need the vaccine because people wear their masks wrong, and many people like yourself are using any excuse not to wear them at all. Public Health agencies don't just rely on pure science, they also examine human behavior. And right now, human behavior is that there are whole communities that refuse to wear masks, and the people who would actually rather wear a mask feel stupid doing so, so they don't.

The vaccine won't be perfect either. The key is to attack Covid from a variety of sources, to lower the infection in the population.

Really, this is elementary stuff. Why is everyone acting like this is brand new information?