You realized you were on the wrong side in a conflict

ora_43

Sun, Sep 06 2020, 3:39 pm

amother [ Turquoise ] wrote:

What if the aforementioned man claims he has not even 1 dollar because wife stole all his money and his business. Therefore he's penniless and his wife is preparing a major custody battle so he needs to be "saved" from his children being totally alienated from him. In reality he's abusive and his children will not want to see him, and he knows this so HE wants to prepare a huge battle but doesn't want to use his own money so plays poor guy.. and comes to you that you should please donate at least $1000 towards this or else he'll never see his kids again.. he's crying terribly and plays it as an emergency so you don't have time to verify..

But it can't be an emergency. If he's about to go into court this minute, it's too late; if he still has time to prepare a case, then there's time for me to try to verify his story.

It is a good question, though, since hiring a lawyer is in the gray area between "helping A" and "hurting B." I'd need to feel sure I know the whole story before helping someone with court costs. Like, at a minimum I'm a close friend and have personally seen the close and loving relationship between this person and their kids.

And even here I think there's more "parve" assistance that could be offered. Eg hooking them up with an organization for estranged fathers, or a lawyer who's willing to set up a payment plan, or helping pay for therapy to give them emotional support/help them figure out how to improve their relationship with their kids.

(Honestly, I have a feeling the "we'll get you your kids no matter how much of an abusive sack of **** you are" lawyers cost way more than I can afford anyway.)

amother

Turquoise

Sun, Sep 06 2020, 4:00 pm

ora_43 wrote:

Then you're an amazing person and definitely not the average.

The above story is true and this (well respected) man collected like this HUNDREDS of thousands of dollars in a few weeks. Those who donated were normal and even nice people. One of those who donated tried saying that he is not mixing into such. He explained how he "didn't" get involved: "I told him - no, I will not give you $1000, I will only give you $100". So yes, he donated $100 to make the innocent even more miserable then they already were. And the sponsor felt he didn't take sides cause he only gave $100.. this is an average nice person.

Average people can so easily be fooled.

amother

Ivory

Sun, Sep 06 2020, 6:36 pm

When I got married, both mil & fil would badmouth the other one, in front of other, to me, like leaving me to be judge who is right. I just nodded my head at both & didnt take a stance.
Sometimes it's better just not to get involved & take sides.

Another time, I was a guest at a bungalow colony when conflict arose between two sides. I was like an outsider looking in, with no emotional attachment to either side, I just listened to both sides vent to me & didnt take sides.

amother

Ivory

Sun, Sep 06 2020, 8:04 pm

I grew up with divorced parents. One side owned the house. The other side stayed living there with the kids. Owner was trying to evict family & get house back. To family, it seemed cruel to throw own grandkids onto street. That's what I knew all the years.
Now that I am grown, and see it from the other side, I still agree that it was cruel, the way it went about, but could understand that the property was wanted & the way family obtained it, didn't seem fair to owner.

amother

Red

Sun, Sep 06 2020, 8:31 pm

Yes and I learned an important lesson in life.
Never take sides. Ever.
You can choose to side with one idea over another in your own heart but don’t completely ex out the other. I learned the hard way to always keep an open mind even if it seemed black and white to me.
Wether its two people fighting, broken engagement, neighborhood eiruv issue, copyrights fight in my family, sibling rivalry, vaccines, alternative health, mask wearing or even two kids bickering.

amother

Seafoam

Wed, Sep 09 2020, 9:42 am

My in laws are divorced. In the beginning it was very clear to me that one side was in the wrong. Now that I know them better, it's not that clear anymore!! They both had issues ... they were definitely not meant to be together. And were both still suffering after they divorced.

I feel this also when I read a "hero" story in the news. I read one about a relative of mine and I was like - wait, the journalist left out half the story at least! Now I see that everyone has a yuckier side and that doesn't quite make it into Mishpacha magazine Smile

It's just part of being human, unfortunately. People should just try to squeak by and be pleasant, do mitzvos, treat each other nicely. I'd rather be a pleasant person than one who has all the fanfare.

STMommy

Wed, Sep 09 2020, 9:49 am

amother [ OP ] wrote:

Did you ever got involved or take sides in a conflict between two people or groups when you were convinced you were standing up for the right side, only to realize later on in time that you were either actually on the wrong side or that your side was not innocent either?

Or were you personally ever in a fight with someone and convinced they were so wrong only to realize years later that you really were the one who was wrong or at least wrong to a great degree?

What happened? Why did you at first side with the wrong side and what caused you to realize who was right?

Please limit this thread to interpersonal conflicts. No ideological haskafa or political debates please.

yes. I was not invited to my best friend's son's upsherin. I was very angry and stopped talking to her. it was the end of a downhill fall in our friendship when she wasn't doing what I thought was a good enough job keeping in touch with me. I was a single know-it-all who was completely clueless about how discombobulating it is to be a parent. to this day we are not friends and it is a huge loss for me, for various reasons. at the time I blamed it all on her because I just did not understand how much leeway to give someone who had a 3-year-old and a baby. if I had been married and a mother at the same time as her I would have not had the time to be in frequent touch with her either and would have shrugged off the forgotten invitation much easier.