Please, please do your due research

amother

Cyan

Mon, Jan 25 2021, 2:37 pm

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

Great, so we'll never be able to say the vaccine did or didn't work because if it doesn't seem to work, we'll find other factors to blame it on. For instance, we don't know if the vaccine makes one more susceptible to contracting covid. The fact that it's the British or other mutation doesn't change that.

Cases in Israel have not peaked, despite *nearly* a third of the population receiving at least one dose. Does one dose have zero expected efficacy?

We still don't know if receiving a single dose, as opposed to receiving 2 doses, makes people more susceptible to covid.

Last point is also pure speculation and does not change the fact that, the possibility the vaccine makes one more susceptible to getting sick with covid, has not been ruled out.

Again you are ignoring facts. The lag time I mentioned has existed for the past year. It's far from new.

The number of cases spiked last week (about three weeks after the vaccine program was announced) and it is dropping, slowly. Our infection coefficient dropped from 1.3 to 0.9. Our numbers dropped from about 10k new cases per day to around 6-7k new cases per day (yesterday it was just above 4k but that's the weekend dip).

One dose is not enough and we knew that going in. Plus - because of the British mutation - about 35% of new cases are in children - who are not getting vaccinated AT ALL, and who previously were mostly unaffected by corona.

There is no reason to speculate that the vaccine would make one more susceptible to getting sick with covid. You are building a straw man and then expecting us to bow to him.

amother

Cerulean

Mon, Jan 25 2021, 2:51 pm

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

Her claim was that a study found it to be dangerous. Dangerous enough for the AMA to take the (I think?) unprecedented step of directing doctors not to even prescribe it off label. Whether or not hcq is effective is a different question that has already been debated on this site endlessly.

I asked for the study demonstrating that hcq is specifically dangerous for people with covid.

I wrote that 1. Hydroxychloroquine was not found to be effective in treating covid, which I appreciate sixofwands providing links to support. And 2. As with all drugs, there are some serious side effects. Since it's not an effective treatment, there is no justification for giving a medication that can cause harm via serious side effects.

Here is some discussion of side effects in trials with covid:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p.....4983/
https://jamanetwork.com/journa.....72922
https://www.accessdata.fda.gov.....d.pdf

SixOfWands

Mon, Jan 25 2021, 3:01 pm

amother [ Seashell ] wrote:

I disagree with your reading.

There are known side effects of HCQ. See https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/.....tails

The risk of those side effects is outweighed by their benefit in treating malaria, etc. But with questionable efficacy in treating covid, the side effects are more troubling. Particularly as they exacerbate the effects of covid.

Amarante

Mon, Jan 25 2021, 4:10 pm

Rare granted unless it happens to your child

https://www.wmcactionnews5.com.....vid-/

‘My worst nightmare’: Mother speaks after 11-year-old son suffers heart problems due to COVID-19

By KCCI Staff January 25, 2021 at 3:27 AM CST - Updated January 25 at 3:27 AM

CRESTON, Iowa (KCCI) -

An Iowa mother is warning others to take COVID-19 seriously after her 11-year-old son ended up in the hospital with a rare but potentially life-threatening complication from the virus.

Jaxson Green, 11, is now home and doing well, but in November, he was in the hospital after he caught a seemingly mild case of COVID-19. His mother, Heather Green, says at first, he was only sick for a couple days before he recovered and headed back to school.

Jaxson Green, 11, ended up in the cardiac intensive care unit, where doctors diagnosed him with myocarditis, after a seemingly mild case of COVID-19 in November.
Jaxson Green, 11, ended up in the cardiac intensive care unit, where doctors diagnosed him with myocarditis, after a seemingly mild case of COVID-19 in November. (Source: Green Family, KCCI via CNN)
The Greens thought the worst was over, but on Nov. 20, all of that changed.

“Before he went to bed, he told his dad he wasn’t feeling very good, and he had a low-grade fever,” Green said. “And that morning… he woke up grabbing his chest, telling his dad it hurt and he couldn’t breathe. He got a bloody nose. Jaxson described it as just gushing down his shirt, and he passed out.”

Jaxson ended up in the cardiac intensive care unit at Children’s Hospital and Medical Center in Omaha, Nebraska, where doctors diagnosed him with myocarditis, or inflammation of the heart muscle.

“They told me that he was in the beginning stages of heart failure. He was beginning to retain fluid, having a high fever. His heart rate was very fast. He was almost in a state of shock,” Green said. “It was the scariest thing I’ve ever been through.”

Dr. Melissa Cullimore, who treated Jaxson, says myocarditis is a rare but serious COVID-19 complication seen in children. It can be deadly because it causes the heart to not squeeze as well.

Jaxson is doing great now, but Cullimore says it’s unclear if he’ll have long-term complications because not enough is known about COVID-19.

“We are definitely concerned, but maybe we’re hopeful that the long-term complications won’t be as severe as we’re watching out for,” she said.

The 11-year-old is now part of a nationwide study led by Boston Children’s Hospital that is gathering data and running tests to figure out why certain children end up with severe complications from the virus. Jaxson did not have any pre-existing conditions.

Green says Jaxson’s ordeal has dramatically changed her outlook on COVID-19, and now, she is urging others to do their part.

“Before this happened to us, I truly thought it was more of a hoax,” she said. “Wear your masks when you’re out and about, properly, and maintain your social distancing.”

southernbubby

Mon, Jan 25 2021, 6:47 pm

Amarante wrote:

No that is not what is indicated since even people who are relatively asymptomatic and exhibit no or mild symptoms have been shown to have severe lung damage in x-rays.

The best thing to do is get the vaccine as soon as possible and until then (and even after) mask with GOOD masks and social distance.

Recent studies have shown that the quality of a mask makes a big difference in protecting the wearer. N95 are the gold standard although KN95 are also pretty good. The big difference is that N95 have a tighter fit but my KN95 masks fit fairly tightly. When I am in an especially high risk situation I will also put on a face shield.

They now have KN95 masks which tie rather than have ear loops and these are supposed to provide a better fit. I have fat cheeks so my KN 95 fits pretty well LOL

We bought some expensive masks with filters and an anti-viral coating from a company in Sweden called Ar. We got some shields for our eyes and we plan to use it for situations that we choose to put ourselves in.

amother

Lemon

Mon, Jan 25 2021, 6:49 pm

Please see this article from American Journal of Medicine supporting the use of Hydroxychloroquine.
https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(20)30673-2/fulltext?fbclid=IwAR14y-vcLHjen4KoHI78jSZzJaLHgOTLIXxEXCXgliU5l-xYKETOme4nGcE
Hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) is an antimalarial/anti-inflammatory drug that impairs endosomal transfer of virions within human cells. HCQ is also a zinc ionophore that conveys zinc intracellularly to block the SARS-CoV-2 RNA-dependent RNA polymerase, which is the core enzyme of the virus replication.21 The currently completed retrospective studies and randomized trials have generally shown these findings: 1) when started late in the hospital course and for short durations of time, antimalarials appear to be ineffective, 2) when started earlier in the hospital course, for progressively longer durations and in outpatients, antimalarials may reduce the progression of disease, prevent hospitalization, and are associated with reduced mortality.22, 23, 24, 25 In a retrospective inpatient study of 2541 patients hospitalized with COVID-19, therapy associated with an adjusted reduction in mortality was HCQ alone (hazard ratio

= 0.34, 95% confidence interval [CI] 0.25-0.46, P <0.001) and HCQ with azithromycin (HR = 0.29, 95% CI 0.22-0.40, P <0.001).23 HCQ was approved by the US Food and Drug Administration in 1955, has been used by hundreds of millions of people worldwide since then, is sold over the counter in many countries, and has a well-characterized safety profile that should not raise undue alarm.25,26 Although asymptomatic QT prolongation is a well-recognized and infrequent (<1%) complication of HCQ, it is possible that in the setting of acute illness symptomatic arrhythmias could develop. Data safety and monitoring boards have not declared safety concerns in any clinical trial published to date. Rare patients with a personal or family history of prolonged QT syndrome and those on additional QT prolonging, contraindicated drugs (eg, dofetilide, sotalol) should be treated with caution and a plan to monitor the QTc in the ambulatory setting. A typical HCQ regimen is 200 mg bid for 5 days and extended to 30 days for continued symptoms. A minimal sufficient dose of HCQ should be used, because in excessive doses the drug can interfere with early immune response to the virus.

southernbubby

Mon, Jan 25 2021, 6:57 pm

SixOfWands wrote:

I read about the possibility of using a gout treatment called colchicine. It's an anti-inflammatory. HCQ slows down the immune response in lupus and other autoimmune conditions and it would seem to be able to prevent the cytocine storm but it seems like Covid irritates the heart muscle and the Zelenko protocol could widen the QT wave of cardiac conduction so it would result in a dangerous arrythmia. I think that a lot of people found success with it so I am not sure why doctors can't use it on patients who are on monitors but it might be dangerous to use it without proper supervision.

amother

Oak

Mon, Jan 25 2021, 8:00 pm

I got the first vaccine and tested positive for covid the next week. I was not very careful for ten months and coincidentally only got it right after I got the vaccine.
That being said, I do know that the vaccine did not cause my covid infection! I found out that I was exposed the day before getting the vaccine. and we know that the vaccine is not effective immediately. many other family members, acquaintances had covid same time as me and now. these are all people who were not vaccinated. It seems to be really contagious now and many many people who haven’t had it yet are getting it now. both unvaccinated people and even some of those that got the first vaccine but it hasn’t built up immunity yet. like me. Thank Gd I had an extremely mild case as did the others that had it when I did. Much more mild than any flu or any sickness I have had.

Amarante

Mon, Jan 25 2021, 9:19 pm

southernbubby wrote:

Excellent article on how the quality of the mask is important. I was relieve that my Powecom masks got a specific recommendation. I have recommended them in this site a few times.

I get mine from an authorized distributor and the price is now down to 10 for $12.50. When I bought a few months back, they were more expensive.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/0.....ainer

eschaya

Mon, Jan 25 2021, 10:15 pm

amother [ Oak ] wrote:

Thank you for sharing your situation. This is really important for people to hear. I've heard a few cases of people who tested positive for covid after receiving the vaccine, and some are taking this as "proof" that the vaccine causes covid, when in reality that is not the case.
bH in your case you actively are aware of a recent exposure, so it's easier to recognize where the infection came from.
For some people, who may have received the virus from an asymptomatic carrier (or someone who ignored their cold symptoms), I totally understand why they would "blame" the vaccine. The thing is, it takes at minimum 5, but more likely ~8 days post exposure, for someone to have enough of a viral load to generate a positive covid result on a pcr test. So if someone tests positive 3 days after taking the vaccine, in all likelihood they were exposed a good few days before they got the vaccine! It's nearly impossible to get an accurate positive result within a few days of getting infected... so it's quite obvious that the vaccine is not the culprit.

Also, another thing people fail to understand is that the endpoint of the vaccine trials was covid illness, not whether or not people in the non-placebo arm of the trial could carry and harbor the virus. There is no way possible each trial (which had 30k-40k participants) could look at asymptomatic carrier status. That would've involved testing all 40,000 participants every week for all the months of the trial. And beside, I don't know how many participants would have agreed to be tested (it's brutal) that often. Ultimately, the point of the vaccine is to prevent people from getting ill and dying, not whether or not they can get a positive covid test.

amother

Red

Mon, Jan 25 2021, 10:28 pm

From what I have read it is six weeks from the date of the first jab of Moderna for full immunity to kick in and then it is 95% effective so until the six weeks have passed, one is vulnerable.

I got jabbed last Wednesday and am still following the same precautions as I did prior to the initial dose and will continue to do so until two weeks after I receive the second dose. I will continue to mask and social distance after that since it is recommended.

It is really disheartening that people will post misinformation based on spurious data or meaningless anecdotal information when the statistic showing the safety and efficacy of the vaccines are so well documented. The statistics in Israel among the over 60 group who have been vaccinated a few weeks ago is so positive - gives me hope that in a year when vaccinations have led to herd immunity, life can start resembling normalcy.