Living in Gateshead UK

amother

Cadetblue

Sat, Sep 04 2021, 6:32 pm

amother [ OP ] wrote:

His family is still there and he is from there.
Most of his family moved out of Manchester, from the 7 children in that family only 2 of them live in Manchester.
Basically the thing what triggers my husband the most is that whenever he is in Manchester and we were there just a few days ago for a couple of days, it that's it's making him scratching his skin open and that he is pulling out his beard hairs. My FIL is a hoarder who never was emotionally involved with his children he is also impulsive and spends money. My husband had huge flashbacks from his teens where he had to comfort his mother because his father was making debt after debt. Last week my MIL cried again out on my husbands shoulder and said 'sorry I'm relying on you but you are the only one who understands me'.
Also his mothers side is from a chavushe family who made name in whole yeshivish UK. And she is really attached to them, t is for my husband a pressure to appear more frum in Manchester so he can give her mother nachas. The silliest thing I do the same thing... The only time he was relaxed during this trip to Manchester was when we visit the parents of good friends. He now finally admit that being close to his parents gives him so much stress and that he is not able to cope with it.

So why would you move there?

freshofftheboat

Sat, Sep 04 2021, 8:29 pm

Do Not go to Gateshead!- The people there like to go on about how it has changed but the truth is that it's just a slightly larger place made up of the same simple-minded people. If your husband has trauma from Manchester it will be worse in Gateshead.
Anyone who tells you to move to a smaller town (eg-Leeds Birmingham) clearly has no first-hand knowledge of the country. The only people who live there are doing Kiruv it's not a place to settle down or build a family.
Manchester is exploding at the seams. There are schools and communities of every type. You can live further out in Prestwich where all the young couples live. It's like a different universe to the yeshivish Salford areas. and not even walking distance.
Definitely look into Borehamwood- Its truly an up and coming community for people such as yourselves and much more affordable than GG.
Hatzlocho!

amother

Junglegreen

Sun, Sep 05 2021, 1:15 am

If dh has trauma from visiting etc I would definitely stay far away from Manchester, nothing personal to Manchester, this goes for any community which triggers trauma or childhood trauma for someone. I would consider myself so fortunate for the distance you enjoy now.
Same with Gateshead while nothing personal to Gateshead in general I would not advise moving to a community which is not really a match overall as I have seen that really does not work best especially for the children, perhaps barring a few exceptions to the rule. And yes in many communities if the parents/family has different standards then it can happen they can be left out socially which would definitely not be good for anyone especially the kids. Also best to match the school hashkafa works much better when school and home is more a match.
Would definitely not want to jump from the frying pan into the fire.
hatzlocha

amother

Orange

Sun, Sep 05 2021, 2:06 am

My inlaws live in Prestwich so we usually stay there. This time we rented an apartment in Salford, near the Machzikei Hadas shul and I have to say its like 2 different worlds. Yiddish speaking chassidim, everyone really chareidi, noisy...

Also, visiting manchester you presumably stayed with your inlaws. If you lived there you would have your own house and could limit interactions with inlaws. Maybe look into an area that is just far enough that you can't walk easily on shabbos.

Many people with childhood trauma do manage to stay living in the same city.

I honestly would agree and say living in Birmingham or glasgow or Leeds is not the best idea. Leeds probably is the biggest, I have a relative who lives there - everyone I know is shluchim or kiruv there plus I think there might be a tiny handful of frum families but you would have to find out for yourself from someone who lives there.

Gateshead sounds like a terrible idea.

Hatzlacha with your decision.

amother

Tealblue

Sun, Sep 05 2021, 2:11 am

Gateshead doesnt sound like the right fit for you.
Yes there may be people moving in that are not part of the yeshivish community, but they are looked at as 'the other', rightly or wrongly. I know from relatives there - they talk about not wanting their children to play in their homes, etc. It is still very much yeshivish, even those who work.
I don't suggest Leeds or all the other smaller communities, its not a place to settle long term if you want to be part of a vibrant frum community.
London has loads of different types of communities, some bigger some smaller, I'm sure we could help you find a good fit. And as another poster mentioned, definitely not everyone is wealthy.

amother

Sun, Sep 05 2021, 2:23 am

freshofftheboat wrote:

My friends from Gateshead indeed go on about how it changed and how it is not as chareidi at it used to be. My husband had an uncle in Gateshead, and an uncle in Salford both very yeshivish, and when they both visit from Manchester Gateshead, the Gateshead cousin said about the Salford cousin 'this is my less frum family from Manchester. I need to emphasize this is more than 25 years ago that this happened. My best friend is from Gateshead and she literally says I should live there, but she is still very yeshivish.

Quote:

My inlaws live in Prestwich so we usually stay there. This time we rented an apartment in Salford, near the Machzikei Hadas shul and have to say its like 2 different worlds. Yiddish speaking chassidim, everyone really chareidi, noisy...

Also, visiting manchester you presumably stayed with your inlaws. If you lived there you would have your own house and could limit interactions with inlaws. Maybe look into an area that is just far enough that you can't walk easily on shabbos.

Many people with childhood trauma do manage to stay living in the same city.

Yeah we stayed in the 'heart' of Prestwich like close to Kingsroad I don't know where the other 'yeshivish' neighbourhoods are or where the new families are living that it makes it far enough to my inlaws.
Basically my DH wants to live rather in Antwerp than Manchester, or in the place where we are now with no shul and school. I really want to give our future children a Jewish education and a sense of community.
In Manchester we would sent our children to Broughton Jewish or Jewish Day. That is more our style. And maybe less 'black' then Gateshead.
In London we used to go to JLE I liked it there really open and really chilled but Golders Green is getting so expensive! Everyone we know there who got married at the same time as us moved to Manchester. Edgeware is also getting more expensive to live I would totally live in Edgeware. .

amother

Poppy

Sun, Sep 05 2021, 5:22 am

I am answering from a more outsider viewpoint who has trauma experience. You cannot move to Manchester. If dh is thriving away from it, you do not go back if it emotionally sets him back so far. On top of that from what you wrote as lovely & nebach as you MIL is, it will bring issues to your home to be so close by. A few hours away sounds healthier for everyone.

I think you should go spend a weekend or more, like a pilot trip, in Gateshead yourself instead of relying on heresay to see how you and your dh feel about it being a good fit or not. Even if you are going in thinking there is a 90% chance it is not for you, it is better to investigate with your own eyes and ears in person. If it is not for you, you will not doubt your decision. Because you will know. There are many nuanced components that you are best making the time to see for yourself.

amother

Cyclamen

Sun, Sep 05 2021, 5:48 am

amother [ Poppy ] wrote:

I think you should go spend a weekend or more, like a pilot trip, in Gateshead yourself instead of relying on heresay to see how you and your dh feel about it being a good fit or not. Even if you are going in thinking there is a 90% chance it is not for you, it is better to investigate with your own eyes and ears in person. If it is not for you, you will not doubt your decision. Because you will know. There are many nuanced components that you are best making the time to see for yourself.

The OP stated in her original post that they wanted to move back to England, so presumably not living there at the moment. If she lives in continental Europe, travelling to the UK is not neat as easy as it used to be, with both corona and Brexit to contend with. It makes sense to gather as much information as possible first.

amother

Poppy

Sun, Sep 05 2021, 5:53 am

amother [ Cyclamen ] wrote:

I know it is not easy now. And I didn't say stop asking people for information. I just advise that the inconvenience and time be taken to do due diligence fully the proper way when making such a huuuuge decision.

amother

Hibiscus

Sun, Sep 05 2021, 6:15 am

op, you need to spend some time in the different places to get a feel of whether you fit in. I would suggest you begin by renting not buying in case it doesn't work out and it's a lot easier to pick up and move when renting than if you've bought.
It does sound like it would be healthier to live far enough away from his parents. A suburb in London sounds like it would be a better fit. Yes, you might not be able to buy a house to live in, but you have to think for you and your dh's menuchas hanefesh-your sanity and wellbeing emotionally, that is worth a lot.
Also I don't know what line of work you/dh are in, but you should also consider how easy it will be to find a job in the different places.
If you really want the equity, you could buy a house somewhere and just rent it out.

amother

Hibiscus

Sun, Sep 05 2021, 6:30 am

amother [ Orange ] wrote:

I just looked on rightmove and there is definitely a huge difference, (£200k for 3 bed in manchester vs £400k for Borehamwood) although not sure if I was looking in Jewish areas.

Depending on whether you want to be more in the main Jewish areas of Manchester, or a bit further out, condition of the house and obviously size. You can get a tiny house out the area for 200k+. Realistically 3 bedroom houses in Manchester are £300k+. A 5 bedroom is 400-500k+. Yes it's probably cheaper in Manchester, but Borehamwood doesn't sound anything close to GG prices.

Aylat

Sun, Sep 05 2021, 6:41 am

freshofftheboat wrote:

Anyone who tells you to move to a smaller town (eg-Leeds Birmingham) clearly has no first-hand knowledge of the country. The only people who live there are doing Kiruv it's not a place to settle down or build a family.
Manchester is exploding at the seams. There are schools and communities of every type. You can live further out in Prestwich where all the young couples live. It's like a different universe to the yeshivish Salford areas. and not even walking distance.
Definitely look into Borehamwood- Its truly an up and coming community for people such as yourselves and much more affordable than GG.
Hatzlocho!

I am from the UK, and would not recommend Glasgow or Birmingham, but I do suggest checking out Leeds. You might find it's not for you, but on the other hand, you might appreciate the lack of pressure and the friendliness of a small community. If you're thinking long-term, then teenagers can and do commute to secondary schools in Manchester. I don't have any first-hand or up-to-date information on the Leeds primary school though.

In terms of Manchester, I second the suggestion to look into further out communities such as Whitefield or Hale. Not easy walking distance to Prestwich/Salford on Shabbat and very different style. But it could be that would still be too close to your in-laws if things are unhealthy there.

Borehamwood might be a possibility, it's a lovely young community, but caveat - I have heard that families moving in recently are less religious and the style of the community is changing. But if you are able to, the best thing is to visit, talk to people, and form your own impressions.