How much are you paying for your apartment in EY for Succos?

byisrael

Thu, Sep 15 2022, 2:05 pm

Ruchi wrote:

After reading through this thread, I see that the ones that justify over charging are likely to be the ones who either do so already or wouldn't hesitate to do so.
This is so Israeli mentality, because you know that you can't ask this price from a native.

This is such motzi shem ra.

I live here and am in the market for hosting my grandparents and parents.
EVERY SINGLE over priced rental was being sublet by AMERICANS living here temporarily. I think most of them justify the price by saying that they need to cover fligts home for it to be worthwhile - which is a totally valid opinion.

We ended up renting a beautiful renovated 2 bedroom with a huge yard in my building from real "Israli" - as in no chutznik blood four 2,000$ from YK - Sunday after sukkos. We offered them more and they said "ma pitom"- we'll take 100 nis more then we do when we rent in the summer.

Other americans in our neighborhood where asking for 5,000 $ for unrenovated places.
I get it - its not worth it for themto rent out unless the cover tickets, when tickets are in the $1,500, they need at least 5 k to cover if they have 2 adults and two kids.
Bigger house = Bigger family = more tickets = more money for it to be worthwhile.

Besides plenty of people are happy to stay in EY for YT and they will only go away if they are making some kind of profit.
So say a 3 bedroom apartment = 7 tickets at $1500 = 10,000 k on tickets. If they are charging 12-15 k which is the going rate they are making a very reasonable profit after you deduct utilities and the expenses that come with renting out

Its elul - you should really be careful before you malign a whole group of people - especially if you are knocking the WRONG GROUP

amother

Pearl

Thu, Sep 15 2022, 2:18 pm

amother Amber wrote:

That's great. I am so happy for them that their expenses are so low that they are doing so well. It's nice to hear about people who aren't struggling to make ends meet. I can only assume they bought when the prices were much lower, or otherwise have a way of not paying outrageous sums in rent or mortgage. Because otherwise what you are saying does not make sense financially.

But I am truly happy for them and they sound very blessed. I am sure they worked hard to get where they are today and I'm glad they can pass the good fortune on to others, by charging a very low rate. I'm glad that that low rate allows them to still make a profit. I'm sure they recognize the great chasadim they've seen and appreciate their situation.

But none of this gives you the right to decide what is fair, greedy, exploitive, normal, outrageous, good morals, good values, etc. You simply don't get to decide how others use their money or judge them for it. As others have said this is a business deal. You don't know everyone's financial situation or expenses and you don't have the right to decide whether they profit greatly or not at all from a given sum. It's just not your place. At all. Ever.

Again, another poster who hasn't read through all the posts of this thread.
Please don't make assumptions when I have clearly stated the facts.

amother

Pearl

Thu, Sep 15 2022, 2:22 pm

Quote:

We ended up renting a beautiful renovated 2 bedroom with a huge yard in my building from real "Israli" - as in no chutznik blood four 2,000$ from YK - Sunday after sukkos. We offered them more and they said "ma pitom"- we'll take 100 nis more then we do when we rent in the summer.

Kol Hakavod to them. As I have mentioned previously, there are those who are not greedy.
Thank you for providing this, it warms the heart.

Greed exists no matter if people need the money or not. To excuse greed is despicable.

No one has the right to invent that the people who don't overcharge, don't need the money as much as those who charge more. That's called legitamising greed and exploitation.

There are wealthy people who overcharge and they don't even need the money as you pointed out. Greed has nothing to do with what your costs are.

Greed is the desire to have more of something, such as money, than is necessary or fair.

Market value is fair. Way Above that, is NOT. That's greed.

Some of you guys are trying to bury your heads in the sand, instead of calling it out for what it really is. You don't want to look reality into the face . You feel bad for people that need to go home and can't afford it, so hey! It's okay to charge any price even $30,000 so that it helps them fly back to their parents plus have plenty change to pay debts. (Not my words, but those from posters who believe it's moral to overcharge to epic proportions)

Those who choose to have the privilege of living in Jerusalem should also know that going home is not going to be simple due to the costs involved. I know people who only go home once in a few years because they can't afford it.

amother

Amber

Thu, Sep 15 2022, 2:24 pm

amother Pearl wrote:

Again, another poster who hasn't read through all the posts of this thread.
Please don't make assumptions when I have clearly stated the facts.

I read every single post, thanks.

Please explain what assumptions I have made that are not based in what you yourself wrote.

Facts are not based on your assumptions. You cannot assume to know other people's expenses based on your select experiences. You do not know whether someone is profiting or losing money just because the family down their street can afford to charge less.

Your assumptions are not facts. They are judgmental assumptions. You have stated pretty much no facts in this thread other than those pertaining to your own finances.

amother

Diamond

Thu, Sep 15 2022, 2:26 pm

amother Pearl wrote:

Quote:

Kol Hakavod to them. As I have mentioned previously, there are those who are not greedy. Thank you for providing this, it warms the heart
Greed exists no matter if people need the money or not. To excuse greed is despicable.

No one has the right to invent that the people who don't overcharge, don't need the money as much as those who charge more. That's called legitamising greed and exploitation.

It is not greedy to charge the going rate. Your attitude is greedy by not realizing that it's a rich person's luxury and privilege to travel to Israel and that it comes with experience. It's not something you deserve or something that someone owes you.
If you think someone is overcharging, don't take that apartment. No one is forcing you. But everyone can charge what they want to.

amother

Amber

Thu, Sep 15 2022, 2:33 pm

amother Pearl wrote:

Quote:

Sweetiepie, you are missing the point here.

These people that she is renting from can AFFORD to charge that low. Probably because the mortgage is either very low or nonexistent, and the expenses involved are easily covered by the low price they charge.

Most normal people don't enjoy overcharging others. They charge what they can afford to charge and still make it worthwhile for them.

I really don't understand what you are missing here.

Anyone charging that low, it's clear that their expenses are lower. BH there are many like this.

A few years ago I lived two minutes' walk from someone whose husband earned about 6k NIS a month and they had to feed five children. The apartment was tiny and rundown but they made it work. Do you know how? The apartment belonged to her grandmother who let them use it for free because she was in a nursing home (and it had no mortgage anyways, for decades already). We had a neighbor in our building whose husband was in kollel and she wasn't working, I think they brought in 4k a month. Do you know how? They received the apartment as an inheritance from his grandparents who had passed. BH BH many people have this.

There are people who came and bought when the prices plummeted. A family we know bought an apartment that is now worth about 450k for just 67k, they got a 90% mortgage deal. I think they are still paying that off but their housing costs are laughably cheap peanuts compared to that of those who rent or buy now.

What you are missing is that people charge what they can AFFORD to charge. Usually they charge the lowest that they can AFFORD to charge because we are all taught that charging your worth or your assets' worth is greedy and exploitive and selfish, and at their core they are good and decent people.

YOU DON'T GET TO JUDGE PEOPLE BASED ON WHETHER YOU LIKE WHAT THEY CHARGE.

amother

Diamond

Thu, Sep 15 2022, 2:36 pm

amother Pearl wrote:

Quote:

It is absolutely NOT for you to decide how much money it's fair or necessary for others to have!!! This is none of your business.

byisrael

Thu, Sep 15 2022, 2:44 pm

amother Pearl wrote:

Quote:

I agree kol hakavod to them

It is also greedy and explotive to demanp that someone rent out to you AT A LOSS for you VACATION.

I have a friend in this situation. She made an agreement with someone to rent out her beautiful 3 bedroom apartment on the ground floor in a prime location for $8,000 which was bellow the market price at the time.
She got a deposit, arranged tickets according to this families needs. She needs to pay for 4 tickets - so it would cost her $6,000. Between the other expenses, she was supposed to make a very modest profit.
Then the family decided that she is being "greedy and explotative" and backed out. She is now desperately advertising trying to have as small as a loss as possible.
So far the highest offer she got was $5,000, which is a loss. She can't get the money for the tickets back now.

She was crying to me - they originally planned on staying in Israel for sukkos, but these people new her husband and begged her to rent the apartment out.
This is a couple that is really struggling financially - no support or anything like that.

I think the people who backed out are greedy and explorative. They obviously could afford the first price - cause the agreed to it. They just saw the prices went down, and wanted a better "deal"
This is not the only story I have heard like this

Let me bet the next year:
- Much less people will be willing to rent out
- whoever does will create strong contracts with all the money upfront

I find it ironic that the people who feel entitled to a vacation at the price that THEY want are the ones calling the other one "greedy" and explotative"

כמים פנים אל פנים

amother

Pearl

Thu, Sep 15 2022, 2:51 pm

byisrael wrote:

First of all. There are halachas regarding such matters and if a verbal contract was agreed, I don't think they are allowed to back out.
It's definitely not morally acceptable.

Secondly, if the price was below market value then I'm afraid the word greed and exploitation is totally misplaced and unfair to use.

I truly feel sorry for these people. They sound like very nice good people, who didn't even charge the going rate and now are left in a much worse situation.

They should take the original people to Din Torah

byisrael

Thu, Sep 15 2022, 2:54 pm

amother Amber wrote:

Thank you!

This is the point

Everyone is trying to cover expenses + small profit.

Israeli who is going to parents for free + bought the aprtment years ago with a tiny mortgage can afford to rent for 2,000$

American needs to travel to America + paying high rent can afford to rent same apartment for $5,000

If the same apartment was in a different location - with higher rent - they would need $8,000

Are there a few people with low expenses who capitalize on the fact the the majority of the market has high expenses?
Sure

But that is the tiny minority.

The you have a few wealthy (you are wealthy if you can afford to come to Isreal for YT on top of all the regular expenses) people who find a few people with less expenses and decide that everyone needs to charge whatever the people with the least expenses are charging

BTW - peopel who can affrod to come - how do you make your money?
How do you act in YOUR businesses?
Take major losses?
Have tiny profit margins that don't come out to minimum wage when you calculate work hours?

I doubt you could afford sukkos in EY if that was the case

amother

Pearl

Thu, Sep 15 2022, 2:55 pm

scruffy wrote:

It would be wrong for your landlord to double rent suddenly when you are already a tenant (and I don't think it would be legal either).

However if you were looking for a new apartment, and the landlord doubled his price from what he charged the previous tenant, that would be fine. You don't have to take the apartment.

Do you see the difference?

A landlord can increase at the time of renewing the contract. Or he can serve notice that he's terminating the contract. There are legal loopholes how this can be done.nOn any event, what would your reaction be if your rent is increased to way way above market value?
You'd love it, no?
You'd praise your landlord and say he can charge what he likes because he's running a business and it's a free market? No. Absolutely no. You would NOT be speaking like that, ever.

amother

Amber

Thu, Sep 15 2022, 2:58 pm

amother Pearl wrote:

Quote:

No one said $30k or that you have to pay any price. Stop putting words in our mouths.

You still refuse to define epic proportions. Or what YOU BELIEVE to be fair market rate or above that.

Those who choose to have the PRIVILEGE of flying to Israel to spend the holidays in Jerusalem should know that it won't be simple due to the costs involved. Believe me anyone who chose to live here knows that going to their families isn't simple. It's part of the package we accepted when we came. Either you find a way to make it work or you don't, part of that sometimes means renting out your apartment so that you can afford to fly back once in a while. That's how they make it work, zei gezunt.

You don't get to decide what is fair price for other people. You don't live here and you don't know people's bank accounts. Your assumptions are gross and UNfair.

amother

Diamond

Thu, Sep 15 2022, 3:00 pm

amother Pearl wrote:

But we're talking about a LUXURY VACATION rental in the hottest city at the hottest time of the year. Hotel and vacation rental prices tend to go up during certain seasons.

amother

Pearl

Thu, Sep 15 2022, 3:01 pm

amother Amber wrote:

How many more times will I have to repeat that I am only parrroting what other posters have stated about expenses.