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-> Yom Tov / Holidays
-> Succos
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amother
Slategray
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 Thu, Sep 15 2022, 1:22 pm
| byisrael wrote: | This is such motzi shem ra.
I live here and am in the market for hosting my grandparents and parents.
EVERY SINGLE over priced rental was being sublet by AMERICANS living here temporarily. I think most of them justify the price by saying that they need to cover fligts home for it to be worthwhile - which is a totally valid opinion.
We ended up renting a beautiful renovated 2 bedroom with a huge yard in my building from real "Israli" - as in no chutznik blood four 2,000$ from YK - Sunday after sukkos. We offered them more and they said "ma pitom"- we'll take 100 nis more then we do when we rent in the summer.
Other americans in our neighborhood where asking for 5,000 $ for unrenovated places.
I get it - its not worth it for themto rent out unless the cover tickets, when tickets are in the $1,500, they need at least 5 k to cover if they have 2 adults and two kids.
Bigger house = Bigger family = more tickets = more money for it to be worthwhile.
Besides plenty of people are happy to stay in EY for YT and they will only go away if they are making some kind of profit.
So say a 3 bedroom apartment = 7 tickets at $1500 = 10,000 k on tickets. If they are charging 12-15 k which is the going rate they are making a very reasonable profit after you deduct utilities and the expenses that come with renting out
Its elul - you should really be careful before you malign a whole group of people - especially if you are knocking the WRONG GROUP |
I am not sure where you live, but where I stayed in Yerushalayim in August, the vast majority of apartments were owned by Israelis and I know them because we belong to the same kehilla.
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amother
Pearl
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Thu, Sep 15 2022, 1:24 pm
| amother Amber wrote: | Mouse holes??? Seriously? You really can't get any more insulting, can you? It's like you are out to insult us.
I'll tell you why. It's 11:14pm and we have to start preparing for Shabbat and get to sleep because we have work tomorrow. I'm about to do the same. Sorry you don't like that most of us don't post every few minutes after a certain hour of the day, but I'm sure you don't either.
Again the landlord is free to do as he wishes and the renters are free to choose not to agree to those wishes. Which is exactly what we all do IRL. Not kvetch and kvetch about how what so many are charging is outrageously above market rate. We just deal with it, either by paying it or by bargaining or by moving or whatever.
It's not a double standard. Do what we do. But your kvetches and blaming and slander and are really not okay. |
Another poster inventing things.
Where did I write that I expect a beautiful apartment in a top area, with all modern conveniences and amenities at a cheap price? Where oh where did I write this?
You see.me as entitled because I dislike people charging way way above market value!! Oh my goodness. You really don't know what entitlement means.
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amother
Amber
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Thu, Sep 15 2022, 1:27 pm
| amother Pearl wrote: | No. I'm simply pointing out that it is not everyone who is busy about luxury and convenience, when wanting to spend Succos in Jerusalem.
I'm not feeling entitled (along with plenty other people too) that I must have a beautiful apartment with all conveniences.
Why was this so hard for you to read in my post? I wasn't bragging that I'm making any sacrifice whatsoever.
Begrudge?
Again? Where are you getting this from?
You are totally reading my posts in a manner to suit yourself. |
Coming to Israel for yom tov is luxury. Full stop. Insisting on renting in a certain area, apartment and not hotel, is convenience. Full stop. Insisting that prices must be the rates you want even though apparently there is enough of a market for higher prices, because you think you should have the conveniences of a home to yourself but without paying a high price for it, is entitlement. Full stop.
Pointing out that it is cramped and that you lack conveniences and amenities is either praising your own sacrifice or complaining about the conditions.
Consistently claiming that anyone charging more than a certain amount is greedy, entitled, spoiled, selfish, lacking values, exploitive - means you begrudge them the money.
Everyone reads posts through their own lens. Including you. And your parroting of what posters wrote is wrong. If you think that I read things in a manner to suit myself - well, you do too, so we're even. Next.
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amother
Slategray
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Thu, Sep 15 2022, 1:28 pm
| amother Pearl wrote: | Another poster inventing things.
Where did I write that I expect a beautiful apartment in a top area, with all modern conveniences and amenities at a cheap price? Where oh where did I write this? |
just let it go.
Israelis seem to think they live life without amenities and we americans live in buckingham palace.
they are a western country
they live on a western lifestyle
the square footage of their apartments does not mean that their kids have less than yours.
just let it go.
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amother
Pearl
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Thu, Sep 15 2022, 1:31 pm
| amother Slategray wrote: | | I am not sure where you live, but where I stayed in Yerushalayim in August, the vast majority of apartments were owned by Israelis and I know them because we belong to the same kehilla. |
I heard that in August, Jerusalem was flooded with American chassidishe ppl. A one bedroom apartment (some even quite shabby, none were beautiful by any stretch of the imagination) were going for $150-$200 a night. $200 a night was in central geulah, right by Malchei Yisroel. ( I was told that The majority were indeed let by Israelis who moved in with their parents)
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amother
Pearl
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Thu, Sep 15 2022, 1:36 pm
| amother Amber wrote: | Coming to Israel for yom tov is luxury. Full stop. Insisting on renting in a certain area, apartment and not hotel, is convenience. Full stop. Insisting that prices must be the rates you want even though apparently there is enough of a market for higher prices, because you think you should have the conveniences of a home to yourself but without paying a high price for it, is entitlement. Full stop.
Pointing out that it is cramped and that you lack conveniences and amenities is either praising your own sacrifice or complaining about the conditions.
Consistently claiming that anyone charging more than a certain amount is greedy, entitled, spoiled, selfish, lacking values, exploitive - means you begrudge them the money.
Everyone reads posts through their own lens. Including you. And your parroting of what posters wrote is wrong. If you think that I read things in a manner to suit myself - well, you do too, so we're even. Next. |
| Quote: |
Consistently claiming that anyone charging more than a certain amount
Sorry. I never ever mentioned a "certain amount". |
Again, stop making up things I never wrote. Why are you doing this? What are you trying to gain here by engaging in make believe, a.k.a lies ?
If you can't read posts properly then please do not take the liberty of responding. Because your responses are based on something false which I never wrote.
I specially asked people to read through all my posts before responding, because it's getting rediculous how people are answering back, with such invented stuff that I never ever mentioned.
This inventing has reached an embarrassing level
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Bnei Berak 10
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Thu, Sep 15 2022, 1:39 pm
| amother Pearl wrote: | It's a luxury to go back home considering the price tag involved. Stop sticking up for entitled spoilt brats who want chutzniks to cover ALL their travel costs plus more. They are taking advantage and you are deliberately blinding yourself
It's no different to the way Israelis expect chutzniks to pay for their children's dirah, when they come here collecting for hachnosas kalloh. Do our daughters and sons get married with an apartment? |
About collecting for hachnasos kalloh: You should be aware of that this is one of the most painful topics among chareidim.
To you it seems like entitled chareidi men who expect you and other Americans to fund their entire wedding expenses and top pay their kids apartments in full.
You should know that chareidi litvish families struggle *enourmously* to marry off their kids, especially their daughters as girls unfortunately are expected to fund 2/3rds of the down payment towards an apartment. 99% of girls will have to take a mortgage too. With real estate pricing being through the roof almost NOBODY gets an apartment bought and paid for when they get married.
In America you have the issue with supporting chosson. In Israel it's about the down payment.
There are thousands of girls in my city Bnei Brak who want nothing else than to get married but their families have between zero and next to nothing as a dowry.
It's an extremely painful situation I can tell you.
Many people have tried to solve the situation once and for all. So far there is no success formula.
DH and I are both against the whole thing.
Next time a chareidi men from israel comes to your door collecting for hachnasat kallah he does NOT expect you to pay for an apartment in full.
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amother
Pearl
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Thu, Sep 15 2022, 1:48 pm
| Bnei Berak 10 wrote: | About collecting for hachnasos kalloh: You should be aware of that this is one of the most painful topics among chareidim.
To you it seems like entitled chareidi men who expect you and other Americans to fund their entire wedding expenses and top pay their kids apartments in full.
You should know that chareidi litvish families struggle *enourmously* to marry off their kids, especially their daughters as girls unfortunately are expected to fund 2/3rds of the down payment towards an apartment. 99% of girls will have to take a mortgage too. With real estate pricing being through the roof almost NOBODY gets an apartment bought and paid for when they get married.
In America you have the issue with supporting chosson. In Israel it's about the down payment.
There are thousands of girls in my city Bnei Brak who want nothing else than to get married but their families have between zero and next to nothing as a dowry.
It's an extremely painful situation I can tell you.
Many people have tried to solve the situation once and for all. So far there is no success formula.
DH and I are both against the whole thing.
Next time a chareidi men from israel comes to your door collecting for hachnasat kallah he does NOT expect you to pay for an apartment in full. |
I don't own my own apartment and nor will my kids have one of their own, when they get married.
I'm happy to participate in the mitzva of hachnosas kalloh for all yidden. But paying for an apartment is an extra luxury and is definitely not part of hachnosas kalloh.
In the States here, which couples get married with an apartment? A select few very wealthy.
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amother
Pearl
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Thu, Sep 15 2022, 1:52 pm
| Bnei Berak 10 wrote: | About collecting for hachnasos kalloh: You should be aware of that this is one of the most painful topics among chareidim.
To you it seems like entitled chareidi men who expect you and other Americans to fund their entire wedding expenses and top pay their kids apartments in full.
You should know that chareidi litvish families struggle *enourmously* to marry off their kids, especially their daughters as girls unfortunately are expected to fund 2/3rds of the down payment towards an apartment. 99% of girls will have to take a mortgage too. With real estate pricing being through the roof almost NOBODY gets an apartment bought and paid for when they get married.
In America you have the issue with supporting chosson. In Israel it's about the down payment.
There are thousands of girls in my city Bnei Brak who want nothing else than to get married but their families have between zero and next to nothing as a dowry.
It's an extremely painful situation I can tell you.
Many people have tried to solve the situation once and for all. So far there is no success formula.
DH and I are both against the whole thing.
Next time a chareidi men from israel comes to your door collecting for hachnasat kallah he does NOT expect you to pay for an apartment in full. |
Why does the boys side see themselves as entitled to request that the girls side pay 2/3rds of a down payment?
Why is this whole idea not scrapped completely and couples should only rent.
Why do parents have to shoulder this terrible burden for each and every one of their daughters? It's terrible.
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israelgirl
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Thu, Sep 15 2022, 2:06 pm
I'm renting my 3 bedroom on a ground floor with a huge porch for sukkos. 2 sukkas, trampoline, central air, partially renovated, very clean, tons of living space.
asking 5k
let me know if you are interested.
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mitzva
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Thu, Sep 15 2022, 2:13 pm
| amother Pearl wrote: | Why does the boys side see themselves as entitled to request that the girls side pay 2/3rds of a down payment?
Why is this whole idea not scrapped completely and couples should only rent.
Why do parents have to shoulder this terrible burden for each and every one of their daughters? It's terrible. |
this situation evolved unfortunately.
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amother
Slategray
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Thu, Sep 15 2022, 2:22 pm
| amother Pearl wrote: | Why does the boys side see themselves as entitled to request that the girls side pay 2/3rds of a down payment?
Why is this whole idea not scrapped completely and couples should only rent.
Why do parents have to shoulder this terrible burden for each and every one of their daughters? It's terrible. |
this has evolved from "running after the jones" where each girl needed a "learning boy" and the non-learning boys are nothing worth.
it is beyond sad.
my husband came from this culture and I can tell you, hashem was good to us Americans that we are more balanced in this respect.
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Bnei Berak 10
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Thu, Sep 15 2022, 2:25 pm
| amother Pearl wrote: | Why does the boys side see themselves as entitled to request that the girls side pay 2/3rds of a down payment?
Why is this whole idea not scrapped completely and couples should only rent.
Why do parents have to shoulder this terrible burden for each and every one of their daughters? It's terrible. |
Girls paying 2/3 is unfortunately one of the "the way it's done" thing. Once upon a time it was 50/50.
Renting only: You cannot compare rental markets in israel vs USA.
Why parents have to shoulder this burden? I think it says in the Gmara that fathers are responsible to marry off their daughters.
And yes, it's an extremely painful topic among thousands of chareidi families who break their backs.
There are no easy instant solutions so far.
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amother
Blueberry
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Thu, Sep 15 2022, 2:58 pm
| Bnei Berak 10 wrote: | About collecting for hachnasos kalloh: You should be aware of that this is one of the most painful topics among chareidim.
To you it seems like entitled chareidi men who expect you and other Americans to fund their entire wedding expenses and top pay their kids apartments in full.
You should know that chareidi litvish families struggle *enourmously* to marry off their kids, especially their daughters as girls unfortunately are expected to fund 2/3rds of the down payment towards an apartment. 99% of girls will have to take a mortgage too. With real estate pricing being through the roof almost NOBODY gets an apartment bought and paid for when they get married.
In America you have the issue with supporting chosson. In Israel it's about the down payment.
There are thousands of girls in my city Bnei Brak who want nothing else than to get married but their families have between zero and next to nothing as a dowry.
It's an extremely painful situation I can tell you.
Many people have tried to solve the situation once and for all. So far there is no success formula.
DH and I are both against the whole thing.
Next time a chareidi men from israel comes to your door collecting for hachnasat kallah he does NOT expect you to pay for an apartment in full. |
There is a broken system in Israel where parents are expected to get their kids apartments, whether it's a whole apartment, a down payment or whatever the situation is. I don't understand the idea of expecting Americans to allow this broken system to continue.
Of course we all want to help each other. It's a mitzva, and we all care about each other. I just feel like this particular issue is more of a societal problem, and if something is wrong with your society, fix it.
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amother
Lemon
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Thu, Sep 15 2022, 3:30 pm
| israelgirl wrote: | I'm renting my 3 bedroom on a ground floor with a huge porch for sukkos. 2 sukkas, trampoline, central air, partially renovated, very clean, tons of living space.
asking 5k
let me know if you are interested. |
Which neighborhood?
Just curious where you will go?
Your apt sounds great btw. I might know someone who is interested but depends where it’s located.
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momsrus
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Thu, Sep 15 2022, 5:11 pm
| Bnei Berak 10 wrote: | Girls paying 2/3 is unfortunately one of the "the way it's done" thing. Once upon a time it was 50/50.
Renting only: You cannot compare rental markets in israel vs USA.
Why parents have to shoulder this burden? I think it says in the Gmara that fathers are responsible to marry off their daughters.
And yes, it's an extremely painful topic among thousands of chareidi families who break their backs.
There are no easy instant solutions so far. |
What is the amount to rental a one bedroom?
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amother
Lightpink
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Thu, Sep 15 2022, 6:11 pm
| amother Blueberry wrote: | There is a broken system in Israel where parents are expected to get their kids apartments, whether it's a whole apartment, a down payment or whatever the situation is. I don't understand the idea of expecting Americans to allow this broken system to continue.
Of course we all want to help each other. It's a mitzva, and we all care about each other. I just feel like this particular issue is more of a societal problem, and if something is wrong with your society, fix it. |
Not to mentioned, a lot of the Americans giving money for Israelis to marry off their children are struggling to marry off their own.
I remember a very self righteous letter to Mishpacha magazine basically telling off Americans for daring to have more costly weddings than those in Israel, where weddings were much less expensive. That may be true, but what the letter writer conveniently left out, is that the cost of a simple Israeli wedding + a hefty down payment on an apartment is at least the same and actually quite a bit more than an American wedding without a down-payment as required dowry!
All that said, I've heard from Israeli relatives that the unspoken about, yet growing "older singles crisis" in chareidi Israel can be traced back to families who simply can't afford the "required" sums needed....broken system, indeed.
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amother
Ginger
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Thu, Sep 15 2022, 6:35 pm
My sister has a beautiful large 5 bdrm 2500 sq ft apt in Brooklyn in the heart of area near popular shuls and rabbonim.
The highest offer she got for renting her apt for sukkos was 4500.
That size apt goes for 6000 usd monthly rent or 2.5 million for sale. We Americans also have sick expenses and covid has knocked even the most financially stable families off their feet.
The only difference here is were lacking the Israeli chutzpah.
yes we choose to live in NY but you choose to live in the expensive areas as well. We just don't have the gall to do what you do in the name of Torah learning.
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amother
Diamond
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Thu, Sep 15 2022, 6:38 pm
| amother Ginger wrote: | My sister has a beautiful large 5 bdrm 2500 sq ft apt in Brooklyn in the heart of area near popular shuls and rabbonim.
The highest offer she got for renting her apt for sukkos was 4500.
That size apt goes for 6000 usd monthly rent or 2.5 million for sale. We Americans also have sick expenses and covid has knocked even the most financially stable families off their feet.
The only difference here is were lacking the Israeli chutzpah.
yes we choose to live in NY but you choose to live in the expensive areas as well. We just don't have the gall to do what you do in the name of Torah learning. |
No, the only difference is that Brooklyn is not a hot spot where people flock for yom tov, and there's not such a large demand for apartments, so rental prices aren't that expensive. Most people that travel to Brooklyn for yom tov, stay with family or swap apartments.
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amother
Goldenrod
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Thu, Sep 15 2022, 6:39 pm
| amother Ginger wrote: | My sister has a beautiful large 5 bdrm 2500 sq ft apt in Brooklyn in the heart of area near popular shuls and rabbonim.
The highest offer she got for renting her apt for sukkos was 4500.
That size apt goes for 6000 usd monthly rent or 2.5 million for sale. We Americans also have sick expenses and covid has knocked even the most financially stable families off their feet.
The only difference here is were lacking the Israeli chutzpah.
yes we choose to live in NY but you choose to live in the expensive areas as well. We just don't have the gall to do what you do in the name of Torah learning. |
No, the only difference is that Israel is prime estate during Sukkos season, and Brooklyn is not. It's as simple as that.
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