Finance shaming | Imamother

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Finance shaming

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DustyDiamonds

Wed, Jan 25 2023, 10:02 pm

amother Cognac wrote:

I live in Lakewood. We have great jobs. We are getting paid very high for our fields. Yet I look poor on those threads. All my neighbors are barely pulling in 100,000 with two jobs. Where is this magical world where you make so much money? Unless you mean all under the table.

The well off folks don’t have jobs. They own businesses. It’s a completely different mentality.

amother

Snapdragon

Wed, Jan 25 2023, 10:06 pm

amother Snowdrop wrote:

So what?
How does that negate the other stuff?

I'm sorry, you are one nasty, jealous lady.
Shame on you for degrading this poster to her face. She didn't come here as "amother", and you have the nerve to treat her like a piece of garbage. What the heck do you care what she buys her children?
She's not using your money, or stealing yours, so zip it, and move on.

Holy cows.

amother

Wed, Jan 25 2023, 10:07 pm

zaq wrote:

Don't like the bashing?
Don't brag about your spending!
I've never understood people who boast about how much something cost them. To spends scads, all you need is to have scads to spend, or the ability to charge scads whether you have them or not (don't get me started on that!).

To be able to have and do nice things when you don't have scads to spend--THAT takes something. Siyata dishmaya, of course, but also planning, creativity, patience, ingenuity, skill and hard work. So come regale me with stories about repurposing your graduation dress and your grandma's tablecloth into a wedding gown for yourself, or how you bought a rundown shack and rehabbed it yourself until you could move in (took you five years but boy was it worth it). Really! I love such stories and admire the people who have what it takes to do such things.

However, if you want to brag to me about your$150K car, $1K shoes, $15K sheitel, $75K tennis bracelet and your house that was five mil (even if you did negotiate down from the asking price of seven and a half), I'm not interested. Lalalala, I don't even hear you.

I agree! It’s tacky and just wrong to brag. But the part that’s just excessive is when there are posters getting shamed when they’re asking a simple question.
I don’t want to list examples Bec it isn’t the point of my vent. (Or rant, acc to snowdrop)
I just wish we can all just live and let live.

amother

Cognac

Wed, Jan 25 2023, 10:08 pm

I find it interesting that strollers are the exception. Everyone only talks about expensive ones on here.

amother

Floralwhite

Wed, Jan 25 2023, 10:09 pm

amother Floralwhite wrote:

According to the Pew Research report, the average income for a frum family is between 120k to 180k (depending on sector, MO families on the higher end).

Which is not really a surprise, as we all know Jews are always higher earners.

Read this link:

https://www.pewresearch.org/re.....evel.

There are more articles of this nature if you search.

Wolfsbane

Wed, Jan 25 2023, 10:09 pm

amother Cognac wrote:

I find those threads odd. They don’t make sense based on reality and they don’t line up with the posts here. I wonder why people lie.

You also have to account for who's responding to what questions. People of lower income are less likely to respond to "how much do you earn" questions. The people responding that they earn 700k with their part-time job are presumably not the same people asking for advice on how to make $5 family dinners. Imamother has a lot of members, but people are drawn out by different kinds of posts.

amother

Purple

Wed, Jan 25 2023, 10:12 pm

DustyDiamonds wrote:

While your theory is certainly possible, it doesn’t ring true in my experience.

And that’s because most of my wealthy friends/neighbors are not working at all, as their DH does very well! So they have even more free time!

They are very busy spending their money by shopping, planning vacations, eating out, managing staff ect… in their free time!

zaq

Wed, Jan 25 2023, 10:12 pm

vintagebknyc wrote:

And yet, there is a constant element of bragging among posters. When people post about their income the majority of them are not telling the truth and are skewing themselves into higher tax brackets. (Source: average income for families in NY with two earners--$71,343)

Well, SOMEBODY is buying all those luxury goods advertised in the ~~Village~~Voice of Lakewood, BP Shopper and similar rags.

amother

Wine

Wed, Jan 25 2023, 10:14 pm

zaq wrote:

Maybe I don't read those threads or maybe I am obtuse and so these types of posts don't register.

I can't think of many posts in which people are bragging about the cost of what they bought for the sake of bragging.

When people talk about how much they spent, it seems to come up more in posts in which there are discussions of different standards - I.e. how much Allah jewelry or engagement rings are; how much a simcha costs; the high cost of houses - and of course there are differences in terms of people who live in small places or whatever.

I don't know if people are lying about their family income or what they own. The reality is that there is incredible levels of wealth in America - I.e. the 10% whether they are frum or secular. There are so many restaurants, stores, businesses, homes that are affordable only to the truly wealthy which seem to be doing well.

What seems to be happening is that there is a greater divide - or more difficulty - among the very wealthy and the less affluent.

Flip Flops

Wed, Jan 25 2023, 10:14 pm

Wealthy people are entitled to spend as much money as they want on whatever they wish. It is their money, they earned it, and they are allowed to spend it.
As someone who grew up poor and is still not wealthy, it bothers me not because I am jealous, but because I understand the value of every single dollar.

When you spend $300 on takeout dinner one night, I just think of a family that could have had their entire Shabbos paid for.
When you buy your two year old a $200 dress, I think of the seminary girl who can't afford to buy a dress to wear to her friend's wedding.
When you spend thousands on your flowers for a wedding, I think of the family that can barely buy their new kallah a diamond ring.

It's not jealousy, it's just hard to see precious money being spent on unimportant things when you are privy to the pain of poverty.

amother

Floralwhite

Wed, Jan 25 2023, 10:16 pm

And this is from nishma research:

Key Findings:

"The study found that, even with high median household incomes of $188,000 for Modern Orthodox and $136,000 for Haredi..."

https://www.jewishdatabank.org...../1139

BaltoMom65

Wed, Jan 25 2023, 10:17 pm

I agree that, generally, posters here overreact. However, there is absolutely an element of classism on this site. There is also a lot of giving people who would not hesitate to help anyone in need. I think the issue is that there is an insensitivity that exists with regards to people who struggle financially. Especially in these tough economic times people struggling do not want to hear about what they consider frivolous spending. Is it their place? No. But is it anyone's place to respond to those struggling with such judgements, even on this site, someone classified poorer people as essentially lazy as they're on this site presumably more than the wealthy, bc obviously those richer are harder working. Do we see an issue? Just saying, we can all think more before posting all around.

zaq

Wed, Jan 25 2023, 10:18 pm

amother Cobalt wrote:

This is true for AVERAGE. Yidden aren’t average and we have many more expenses. Food is more expensive, we have to pay membership to shuls (we’re members of at least four shuls that dh goes to regularly), we have to pay tuition, our families are KAH BH much bigger than the average family. The average Yiddishe family with 6 or 8 kids has to be making at least 200,000$ if not more to live a low class (by non jewish standards) lifestyle. They also have smaller weddings and no bar mitzvahs and parents aren’t expected to set up an entire apartment and support and buy car and make bris and pidyon haben etc.

So maybe the system needs a radical overhaul. Maybe we should be making smaller weddings and bar mitzvahs and vorts and teaching our daughters AND SONS trades so that they can support themselves and not expect their parents to pay for their apartment and car and bris and pidyon haben etc. As the billboard says: "Your inlaws are not a retirement plan."

amother

Orange

Wed, Jan 25 2023, 10:20 pm

I never see pple bragging about their money on here… if anything it’s scary to admit you spend money on anything or your head gets bitten off. It’s like a dif reality here than the world I live in. And I’m not one of those with much or any financial breathing room.. but I’m not making my own cottage cheese or considering chicken cutlets a luxury item. Sometimes it feels like you are made to feel ashamed if you spend anything above basic basic needs and I don’t think that’s very healthy to be honest.

amother

NeonOrange

Wed, Jan 25 2023, 10:20 pm

$200 is on the higher end for shoes but I'd say that 75% of those buying their kids shoes in local jewish stores are spending an average of $120( I went into a regular shoe store in lakewood and girls shabbos shoes started at 110 and there were many/most were more). While you may be able to get for cheaper by getting in target etc the reality is that the shoe stores are jammed. A pair of atlantas are not considered showy but they cost upward of $120.

Everyone needs to chill!!
BH I'm not what I would call low income but there are still things I would love that I cant have now like a family trip to Israel.
Does that mean no one can go to Israel for Succos because I cant?
I think the inability to fargin hurts the 'have-nots' more than the 'haves'

zaq

Wed, Jan 25 2023, 10:22 pm

Wolfsbane wrote:

My question is twofold: 1.Why are people even asking this question?
2. Why are people answering?

vintagebknyc

Wed, Jan 25 2023, 10:27 pm

amother Floralwhite wrote:

And yet this still doesn’t even come close to the larger sums people are bragging about here.

amother

Zinnia

Wed, Jan 25 2023, 10:28 pm

amother Cognac wrote:

I live in Jackson NJ and all my neighbors are prob making min $300k a year. They are all nursing home administrators or property managers etc
All the wives are SAHM
We pay taxes through the roof.
Just because you know one area doesn’t mean that’s everyone.

cupcake123

Wed, Jan 25 2023, 10:29 pm

Zaq, who is bragging ?? I'm addicted to imamother I hardly seen any outright bragging. If someone posts a questions what stroller do you have and someone responds an expensive one is that what you mean? Because that's not bragging that's answering the question.
What I get stressed about is I can't say I eat fleishigs most nights for dinner or I will get bashed.

amother

Floralwhite

Wed, Jan 25 2023, 10:30 pm

vintagebknyc wrote:

And yet this still doesn’t even come close to the larger sums people are bragging about here.

The word is "median" my dear. Median. A full half are making more.

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