Why is everyone blaming the moms and kids? Blame the...

watergirl

Thu, Mar 09 2023, 12:26 pm

amother Bluebonnet wrote:

And what happens when there are certain kids who DON’T quiet down after a few seconds? Is that fair to the others who are fasting and can’t wait endless amounts of time to have the Baal Korei keep stopping?

Again, hyperbole weakens the point you are trying to make.

If the child does not calm down, I assume any parent with any amount of seichel would leave with the child. If not, again it's on the gabbai to send them a message to do so. But I've literally never ever encountered this kind of situation where a child is making that kind of noise, not stopping, and not leaving the room. Have you? What happens then?

amother

Bluebonnet

Thu, Mar 09 2023, 12:28 pm

amother Melon wrote:

I agree excellent post. I do not understand why so many people become so selfish around purim. The lack of kindness about this stressful time for everyone blows my mind.

What about kindness towards the other people? Are only the mothers deserving of it?
What about elderly people who come and can’t sit that long? Or like I said, people are FASTING! Why should they have to fast longer just because of babies who can’t stay quiet? I think it’s very selfish any times on the part of the mothers.
One or two short disruptions of course can be understood.
But asking for everyone to tolerate numerous disruptions, even short ones is unacceptable and not right to expect.

amother

Bluebonnet

Thu, Mar 09 2023, 12:29 pm

amother Clear wrote:

Why would you miss a word even if a baby cries? Assuming it's not full blown shrieking in your ear. I just dont understand the OCD about this.

OCD?? It’s halacha! Yes you can very well miss a word or words easily when babies make noise and you just lost your requirement to hear every word!

watergirl

Thu, Mar 09 2023, 12:35 pm

amother Bluebonnet wrote:

OCD?? It’s halacha! Yes you can very well miss a word or words easily when babies make noise and you just lost your requirement to hear every word!

The halacha is, if you miss a word, you read the word yourself until you are caught up.

amother

Lotus

Thu, Mar 09 2023, 1:15 pm

watergirl wrote:

I have experienced this. Mother just sat there while her kids ran around shrieking loudly. I didn't just miss one or two words, it was few psukim, a few times during the reading. I couldn't say them and catch up with the leining bec by then the baal koreh was already too far ahead.
I had to rehear the megillah.

watergirl

Thu, Mar 09 2023, 1:18 pm

amother Lotus wrote:

And the shul just allowed it to happen?

amother

Lotus

Thu, Mar 09 2023, 1:22 pm

watergirl wrote:

And the shul just allowed it to happen?

What was the shul going to do?
The baal koreh/mens section didn't hear. The few women who were still following along were not going to interpret their concentration. The rest of us didn't want to make any more noise that might ruin it for anyone still following along. I think there were a few shushers but the kids ignored them and the mother just kept focusing on her own following along. I guess she was used to tuning out her own kids but we couldn't do the same.

What some posters don't get is that yes, there are people who have had these bad experiences and that's why they feel so strongly that young children do not belong at a regular reading.

amother

Banana

Thu, Mar 09 2023, 2:04 pm

watergirl wrote:

The halacha is, if you miss a word, you read the word yourself until you are caught up.

I tried this when the two year old behind me was shaking her toy. But if you’re not familiar with the words/ or have trouble reading Hebrew this isn’t a good solution.
(Child wasn’t loud enough to be heard in the men’s section. She was relatively quiet, mom probably thought she was behaving great. But small women’s section, there was nowhere else for me to go to hear better).

amother

Pistachio

Thu, Mar 09 2023, 2:21 pm

amother Clear wrote:

Why would you miss a word even if a baby cries? Assuming it's not full blown shrieking in your ear. I just dont understand the OCD about this.

It's kind of disrespectful to label people OCD.

CPenzias

Thu, Mar 09 2023, 4:42 pm

Are you allowed to lein into a microphone? I mean obviously we don't do that on shabbos but why not for megillah?

keym

Thu, Mar 09 2023, 4:45 pm

CPenzias wrote:

Are you allowed to lein into a microphone? I mean obviously we don't do that on shabbos but why not for megillah?

As far as I'm aware, you need to hear the megilla from the BK mouth/throat without anything interfering.
Many hold that the microphone, hearing aids, phone, etc distort the voice and therefore the halachic requirement hasn't been fulfilled.

CPenzias

Thu, Mar 09 2023, 5:03 pm

keym wrote:

Interesting. I did not know that. Thank you for explaining 🙂

amother

Darkblue

Thu, Mar 09 2023, 7:33 pm

In our shul there used to be a gitte neshume person who would announce that all the mothers should make sure their babies are quiet.
I asked dh if he can ask this man to please watch my kids during shofar the next day.
Since then, there are no more put down announcements of yiddishe mothers.

CPenzias

Thu, Mar 09 2023, 7:44 pm

amother Darkblue wrote:

I think we need to be friends in real life. I'd say the same thing straight to his face.

amother

Lotus

Thu, Mar 09 2023, 7:58 pm

amother Darkblue wrote:

I've been at shuls where the rav makes this exact announcement. Obviously it is needed.

CPenzias

Thu, Mar 09 2023, 8:00 pm

amother Lotus wrote:

I've been at shuls where the rav makes this exact announcement. Obviously it is needed.

Then mothers shouldn't be chiyuv to be in shul.

amother

Lotus

Thu, Mar 09 2023, 8:05 pm

CPenzias wrote:

Then mothers shouldn't be chiyuv to be in shul.

Or they can go to a different reading or swap with a neighbor or spouse etc. And definitely leave if their kid starts disturbing others.

And actually the rav at the shul where the incident happened that I described above made the announcement the following year. Obviously there were multiple people who were affected by the noisy kids whose mother let them stay, so much that the rav heard about it and decided it needed to be said. He's a respected posek, btw. This is the halacha. Following halacha is not always easy and simple, but that's the requirement.

amother

Darkblue

Thu, Mar 09 2023, 8:07 pm

amother Lotus wrote:

I've been at shuls where the rav makes this exact announcement. Obviously it is needed.

Yes obviously.
My Rav doesn’t hold like that.

Must be a chumra to make this announcement.

CPenzias

Thu, Mar 09 2023, 8:15 pm

amother Lotus wrote:

And I apologized because my son kept going back and forth between my husband and I and the Rabbi told me that children are our next generation and they belong in shul