Trigger warning: having children is a privilege!

amother

Sun, Mar 26 2023, 9:57 pm

amother Copper wrote:

This.

Not sure why it was reported. This is what needs to be said.

Sure, having kids is a privilege. But you know what really smacks of privilege? The idea that everything needs to be perfect in order to have a kid. Because guess what, even if you do have that perfect setup, things can change. Circumstances can shift. Realistically, none of us really know what will happen till the end of time. Sure, are there certain basic things you should know that would will be sacrificing? Yes! But to say that all those things op listed need to be in order to have children is denying women the right to a legacy and continuity of our people. And don't get me wrong, I'd love if the picture you paint can be accurate for everyone in order to have a child (I work in mental health, I see the negative of effects of less than ideal circumstances) but it's not feasible or realistic and paints humans as being individuals that can't change over time.

Again, these are the things I listed.
Did you misunderstand?
I specifically said you don’t need to be perfect, but you need to be willing to work on yourself.

I don’t think you need to be perfect, but you need to be willing to give them your all!
You need to be willing to sacrifice!
You need to be willing to work on yourself!
You need to be willing to deal with them when you’re tired, and hungry!
You need to try to give them a stable safe environment!

amother

Burntblack

Sun, Mar 26 2023, 10:45 pm

amother OP wrote:

Who exactly is arguing with you about this? I don’t understand this thread. Is there a point?

BaltoMom65

Sun, Mar 26 2023, 10:46 pm

amother OP wrote:

Everyone should have kids!
But everyone should know it’s a commitment!
And the following still is true:

as I posted:
I don’t think you need to be perfect, but you need to be willing to give them your all!
You need to be willing to sacrifice!
You need to be willing to work on yourself!
You need to be willing to deal with them when you’re tired, and hungry!
You need to try to give them a stable safe environment!

Those arguing with me, tell me which of these a mother can skip in your eyes?

This is an awfully strange PSA to put out, especially ON this site, this demographic. And who appointed you to define what defines a good parent? It's just a bit strange and out of left field. Maybe direct these truly invaluable gems to the individual you are probably avoiding having this conversation with for reasons hopefully relevant and appropriate for that specific person/conversation.

Last edited by BaltoMom65 on Mon, Mar 27 2023, 4:50 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Peony

Mon, Mar 27 2023, 4:27 am

amother OP wrote:

Everyone should have kids!

But that’s not what you said in your original post about how you should only have children if you can “commit to the package”.

Is the point of this thread that not everyone should have kids and we should think about our readiness to be parents before making that decision (true in some cultures, but not this one)? Or that everyone should have kids but you think some of us are terrible mothers (other posters have pointed out the problems with this better than me)?

This thread is all over the place.

amother

Obsidian

Mon, Mar 27 2023, 4:34 am

amother OP wrote:

I agree. But to be honest , I had no idea how difficult it would be to do all the above until I had my first child. It was then that I realized maybe I wasn’t equipped with the mental, emotional and physical capacity to be able to do it all. And believe me , I had post partum depression and felt terrible guilt that I brought a child into the world I wasn’t capable of sacrificing for 100%. I was young, I was still a teen and I wish someone educated me back then about the realities. I thought I would be the best mom in the world. Never did I dream that it would be a struggle for me every day.

amother

Mon, Mar 27 2023, 7:09 am

Real life situations making me post….
Maybe I’m not expressing myself well, and maybe I’m just so upset at these choices that I’m not thinking rationally about all different scenarios where I’m wrong.,,

“I’m having a baby, but my family is doing a trip when the baby is 2 weeks old and I don’t want to miss out, so a nurse will move into my empty house and take care of my newborn for 3 weeks while I’m on the trip”

“I don’t always have patience to pick up my kid from the sitter after I finish working, especially if I might want to go out at night. They’re going back in the morning in either case…so I just let them stay their overnight”

“My 6 month old is afraid of his siblings, because they never interact since he’s in the room all day with his nurse. I do go in to visit 2-3 times a day….
Next conversation….I feel like I’m ready for another one…”

amother

Electricblue

Mon, Mar 27 2023, 7:24 am

amother OP wrote:

OP - let go of your anger. there will always be people who do things differently that you. Women have used baby nurses for centuries.

HonesttoGod

Mon, Mar 27 2023, 7:24 am

amother OP wrote:

What one of these comments makes having children a privilege?
They are a privileged family that have a lot of conveniences and help maybe but that doesn’t make the action of having a child a privilege.

And as I’m sure has been mentioned above, you have no idea what else is going on in peoples lives. Would I do that? Maybe not but if they want to by all means.

Wouldn’t you love to have kids and have a full time assistant too? Think of all the celebrities. It makes life a blast.

amother

Freesia

Mon, Mar 27 2023, 7:51 am

I would also be upset by those comments. I don't know ANYONE in real life who talks like that! Like seriously, I can't even think of one person, no one.
There seems to be a connection lacking between the parent and their children and I can't imagine it won't affect the kids. How would you feel if your parent decides they'll just leave you by the babysitter overnight since hey you are going back there tomorrow anyway? Why can't a 6 month old have a relationship with their older siblings? yes more might be going on, but then deal with that and don't have another child!

BaltoMom65

Mon, Mar 27 2023, 9:49 am

amother OP wrote:

These sound like issues among a very small, privileged and vapid class. I feel for you. I'm thankful that I've never heard of people having these self-inflicted problems. Especially considering they're supposed to be living a religious lifestyle

amother

Snapdragon

Mon, Mar 27 2023, 9:55 am

amother OP wrote:

These people are obviously wealthy. If having kids were a privilege, they would be the ones having all the kids. They’d have all the resources needed to earn their procreation license or whatever.

amother

Cinnamon

Mon, Mar 27 2023, 10:11 am

I have mixed feelings about this.

My parents were horrible parents.

I wish they had given me up for adoption. 100%

Even better, I wish Hashem had arranged for me to be born to different parents.

But do I wish they hadn't had children if it meant I wouldn't exist? No. I'm glad I exist. Also, this may come across as very immodest, but I feel like I contribute positively to this world, and that the world is better because I exist.

So I have trouble with statements like "If people can't ...., then they should not have kids." Especially because a lot of the things they fill in the blank with, are a lot better than my parents were.

amother

Mayflower

Mon, Mar 27 2023, 10:15 am

amother Dimgray wrote:

Or maybe they should have been given much more help?

Maybe they would have done ok if they weren't struggling financially?
Or if someone stepped in to help with bedtime when the kids were young?
If someone would have noticed the PPD before it spiraled downwards?
Maybe if someone could have helped the mother recognize the abuse and go to therapy to stop it or leave him?
Maybe they were slow learners, but if someone had helped organize the house and made sure they knew how to cook basic meals they would have managed?
Or if they knew about parenting classes and were able to learn how to discipline appropriately?
Maybe if teachers and neighbors and professionals projected a "we're on the same team" attitude instead of "us vs you" they would have been ready to accept advice?

We're humans, we're interdependent, it's not fair to put it all on us alone. We need to be supporting each other, not judging each other.

Some people are naturally great parents.
Some are good learners and will figure it out as they muddle through.
And others... need a lot of hand holding. If nobody gives it to them, they will fail.
Doesn't mean they shouldn't have had kids. But it does mean that we as a society are not doing our part. If we help them now, they can become givers later.

I’m all for giving people as much support as people need, but that’s not what I’m talking about. Sounds like you’re talking about depression, anxiety, executive functioning issues, or finance/stress issues that can be mitigated by help from laypeople.
I’m talking about people with things like untreated or poorly managed personality disorders (borderline, narcissistic, paranoid, etc.) active addictions, abuse, or ongoing behavioral/mental health issues beyond just depression and anxiety. Like, people who are really struggling in the community and in life when they’re single, and then a shadchan will set them up with someone, usually who is outright lied to or is also struggling with something or comes from a “less than” family and doesn’t have the ability or knowledge to support their future spouse. Then those people go on to have kids even when they’re still actively unable function and it perpetuates another generation of trauma for the kids.

No one looks at an abuser and thinks “they definitely should have been allowed to get married and procreate.” Right?

amother

Mayflower

Mon, Mar 27 2023, 10:18 am

amother OP wrote:

Those sound like people who don’t actually want to parent children, they’re just collectors.