Is it possible to transition teenagers to plant based diet?

amother

Green

Thu, Apr 20 2023, 11:38 pm

I can show you scientific studies that back up each and every single version of healthy eating that there is.

Its called some are real, some are skewed, some are cherry picked and some are designer.

In fact if you've seen the recent criticisms on the newish food compass from Tufts University , when put under a microscope it looks kind of funny.

https://unsettledscience.subst.....-than

I just go with the Torah studies personally.

amother

Lotus

Fri, Apr 21 2023, 12:01 am

Didn't read the whole thread. Many years ago while in Israel, I was placed at someone's house for Shabbat dinner, Dr. Lisa Aiken. I don't want to misrepresent anything, but if I recall correctly, her food was generally (or always) vegetarian. I'm not a vegetarian but her food was exquisite (and company fascinating, but that aside). I went back to her family's house for Shabbat meals multiple times after that.

I had a carnivore guy friend whom I once brought to her house and he left completely happy, satiated and would have been totally thrilled to go back again (this may have actually happened; I don't recall).

But I'm sure she invested some amount of time and energy into making her food as good as it was. So. If you want to go all out and make delicious and nutritious meals for your children that don't involve meat, and you're not twisting anyone's arm, I don't see the issue. If your food is actually amazing, I think people will eat it.

But I don't think it's fair to make the switch if your kids won't eat it and will be hungry. And maybe my example doesn't work because vegetarian is easier to make tasty than vegan.

amother

Apricot

Fri, Apr 21 2023, 12:33 am

I’m not gonna get into the whole is it healthy debate….

I’m just gonna answer your question. Is it possible..
sure it is.

They might resent it. They might resent you. They might no longer view their home as their safe space and instead seek out alternative places.

Honestly. What I would recommend is just a slow transition.

I don’t know what your food looks like now. But if you serve an animal based protein every night for dinner, do one night a week vegan. A delicious veg curry with rice. A big salad. In the winter lots of soups with beans, peas, lentils etc…

Ask for feedback see what your kids like.

On the nights when you do serve animal based protein, make sure that isn’t the only thing available. Lots of veggie sides and even an alternate veggie main.

Make sure there’s plenty of delicious vegan snack options. (Fruit veg etc…)
Always have interesting and delicious salads.

For what it’s worth… I agree with you that we est too much animal protein. But…I also agree with people who say that a fully vegan diet is not healthy. And I think most meat substitutes are wildly unhealthy.

But I think you can think in terms of percentages.

I think you can make your house 80% vegan quite easily.

I would keep things like organic free range eggs in the fridge for kids to make themselves eggs for breakfast.

But if you make your own challah for example. I would totally switch to a vegan recipe. Still totally delicious.

Now that summer is coming. If you bbbq do lots of grilled veggies on the bbq, corn on the cob, tons of salads, and then a bit of chicken or meat. (I wouldn’t do much processed red meat either)

Small baby steps while getting your kids by in is so important.

amother

Quince

Fri, Apr 21 2023, 1:47 am

amother Thistle wrote:

Different scenario - Parents become Bt with teens - should parents continue to provide treif products in her home to be fair?

There are kosher alternatives to nearly everything though.

Teen wants hamburgers, hot dogs, ice cream, sub sandwiches, Cheerios, donuts...even cheeseburgers can be made kosher with vegan cheese and the teens can buy them at McDonald's, just not bring them into the house.

That's TOTALLY different than completely depriving your kids of a wide variety of foods, and telling them that if they want to eat the food pyramid they can do it on their own bill.

amother

Quince

Fri, Apr 21 2023, 2:25 am

giftedmom wrote:

Every child in preschool is taught the food pyramid. You don’t need a nutrition course to know the importance of protein.

Well obviously you do, because too many people apparently don't understand its importance.

That said I will say a few things, starting with the fact that we are omnivores but try to only feed our kids healthy food (80/20 rule).

* too much red meat IS bad for you and can cause heart disease
* deli meats CAN cause cancer if you eat too much of them
* soy IS bad for boys because it mimics estrogen, too much can hurt testosterone levels and male development, and I wouldn't be surprised if it hurt sperm count as well but I haven't looked that up
* too much soy IS bad for girls because it mimic estrogen and too-high estrogen levels are also a cancer risk but more they are a risk for premature puberty
* animal protein IS important, very important, because of the amino acids and because you need those amino acids for developing brains
* vegetarian diets can be healthy, the Mediterranean diet is consistently shown to be healthiest, plant-based diets ARE NOT healthy in the long-term no matter what fad research you are seeing, but their proponents are pretty gung-ho so there's no one to talk to, in general
* meat, dairy, eggs, fish - all are healthy if you eat them in normal quantities. You are talking gain vs loss, benefit vs risk, and in moderation the benefits far outweigh the risks. But if you don't eat any of this then you might have zero risk from them, but you significantly raise your risks of other things, and the risk vs benefit of plant-based diets tips greatly towards the risk side, especially for anyone who isn't yet an adult.

All of this has loads of research behind it but I'm at work right now so I'm not looking it up for anyone.

amother

Khaki

Fri, Apr 21 2023, 9:38 am

amother Quince wrote:

The mediterranean diet is often misunderstood. It's a mostly plant based diet with fish, poultry, eggs, and dairy eaten 1-3 times a week. Red meat is eaten sparingly. It differs from other fad diets, because whole grains are eaten daily in contrast to the paleo or keto diet where whole grains aren't included. Some people forget that whole grains come from plants and make up a large part of a plant based diet. So the mediterranean diet is essentially 75% plants (which includes whole grains) & 25% fish, dairy, eggs, & poultry (with fish eaten the most often). It's supposed to be the healthiest diet, but most of Americans don't eat that way.

giftedmom

Fri, Apr 21 2023, 10:03 am

amother Khaki wrote:

I can see that being healthy for an adult, especially one that is struggling with their weight, and especially if you’re keeping it all whole and unprocessed. Meaning the dairy is full fat and so on.
But I think children and teens need more than 25% of their diet to be from animal-based protein and fat.
Unless a child is obese or has another mitigating health issue, I don’t think there’s such a thing as too much (unprocessed) animal protein and fat for a child.

gootlfriends

Fri, Apr 21 2023, 10:16 am

giftedmom wrote:

That's one thing I disagree with. Too much of anything is a bad thing. Too much water is also bad for you. Too much vegetable is bad for you. Everything should be in moderation. Very often people are hungry because they don't have enough fiber. Sometimes it's not enough fat or protein. But most people in USA it's not enough fiber. It's fairly easy to get enough fat and protein if you eat a basic meal.
And I also feel the need to mention the "my plate" which has replaced the pathetic food pyramid. Encourages vegetable and includes animal protein. It also allows dairy in small quantity.

amother

Quince

Fri, Apr 21 2023, 10:19 am

amother Khaki wrote:

I'm aware of that.

If OP is looking for healthy, and thinks too much red meat is bad for you (it is), then she should be trying to transition her family as much as possible to a Mediterranean diet.

I know what that means, I live in Israel. I believe this gives the best of both worlds - it gives enough animal proteins but it's majority plant-based (I'd say your 75/25 is about accurate). That's probably why it's consistently found to be the healthiest way to eat.

I know Americans don't eat this way, usually, but that doesn't mean that the Mediterranean diet doesn't top plant-based eating hands down, if you're after healthy food.

giftedmom

Fri, Apr 21 2023, 10:22 am

gootlfriends wrote:

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That's one thing I disagree with. Too much of anything is a bad thing. Too much water is also bad for you. Too much vegetable is bad for you. Everything should be in moderation. Very often people are hungry because they don't have enough fiber. Sometimes it's not enough fat or protein. But most people in USA it's not enough fiber. It's fairly easy to get enough fat and protein if you eat a basic meal.
And I also feel the need to mention the "my plate" which has replaced the pathetic food pyramid. Encourages vegetable and includes animal protein. It also allows dairy in small quantity.

Ofcourse but how many people do you know who drink too much water?
Let me be clearer: I don’t think that as parents we should be concerned about serving our kids too much animal protein and fat. Unless a child has a disorder where they can’t tell they’re full (I know such a child, they’re obese, and it’s very sad) it’s highly unlikely that kids will binge on meat and eggs. They’re a lot more likely to want to load up on sugar and other carbs.
I believe that when a growing child or teen asks for the protein and fat then their body needs it. Those are literally the building blocks for growth.

amother

Butterscotch

Fri, Apr 21 2023, 11:46 am

amother NeonPink wrote:

I'm surprised that you don't know, go ahead and google, but here is the top result.

Considerable evidence from long-term prospective cohort studies has demonstrated that diets high in red and processed meats are associated with increased risk of type 2 diabetes (T2D), cardiovascular disease (CVD), cancer (particularly colorectal cancer), and all-cause mortality (4–6).

PROCESSED MEAT
I love the way they link both together
Was there a double blind long term study
correlation does not imply causation
The biggest culprit to all these is sugar.
There are MANY studies showing how a carnivore, ketovore diet reverse and manage all these diseases
Our society is very carb heavy
Look at the holy food pyramid
Remove the sugar and the processed junk and these diseases reverse themselves
And yes there are many studies proving this
Look at the studies done by
Dr. Thomas Seyfried
Dr. Steven Phinney
Dr. Dominic DAgostino
Dr. Eric Westman
It is a theraputic diet for MANAGING metabolic disease