Finances of large families. Explain

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amother

Sat, May 27 2023, 11:30 pm

I've been pondering a question that has occupied my thoughts for a considerable amount of time, and I believe this forum could provide valuable insights. I am genuinely intrigued and eager to comprehend how Yeshivish families with seven or more children, whose parents are both teachers, manage to afford anything.

How do they successfully navigate the financial demands of raising seven or more children, particularly when both parents are teachers/working in Chinuch? (or when the husband is in Kollel and the wife teaches)

While I acknowledge the possibility of some families receiving financial assistance from their own parents, it is worth noting that these grandparents would themselves be responsible for supporting SEVERAL children. What about when their own parents are also working chinuch, teaching?!

How do these families manage to pay for all the expenses associated with a frum lifestyle and the unique challenges of raising a large family?

Someone please explain as I have been wondering about this for years!!!!

amother

SandyBrown

Sat, May 27 2023, 11:54 pm

Lots of people are carrying debt.
Others are getting gifts.
People have side hustles.
Investments/Yerusha
Etc

Cressel

Sat, May 27 2023, 11:55 pm

Wondering about this also. How much do government programs even cover?!! The expenses of frum lifestyle are significantly high.

Even high paying jobs don't necessarily cover all the expenses that living a frum lifestyle entails.

So curious to understand how this all works for people who are teachers with so many children!

amother

DarkGray

Sat, May 27 2023, 11:56 pm

If both parents are teachers then they're not paying tuition.
Rebbeim get assistance for Yom tov like pesach

amother

Cantaloupe

Sat, May 27 2023, 11:56 pm

Most people by the time they have 7 kids the husband is working and if he’s a Rebbi he also tutors and works in a camp in the summer and maybe teaches English in the afternoon. They usually get tuition breaks for chinuch and get food stamps, hud, Medicaid. Also tzedaka organizations help rebbeim before Yom tov with food and clothes

amother

Bronze

Sat, May 27 2023, 11:58 pm

SNAP, WIC, Medicare, etx and other government benefits for those with low income, like electric and gas bill reductions... Eliminate or greatly reduce lots of bills
We benefit from those.

Additionally, we benefit from, like someone else said
side hustles
Some family financial help (in beginning of marriage lots of financial assistance aka support including money toward down payment.
Now it's definitely less than 1K a year)

Married over 10 years

amother

Sun, May 28 2023, 12:10 am

amother DarkGray wrote:

If both parents are teachers then they're not paying tuition.
Rebbeim get assistance for Yom tov like pesach

Right but tuition certainly isn't the only expense of frum living.

Clothes for ALL the kids? (In a frum clothing store these days, you can easily spend $300 on just two outfits for one child! And that's just for one child. But then you also have to get for all other 6+ kids! And that doesn't include shoes)

Home improvements/repairs

Camp, daycamp or sleep away- always costly

Flights for seminary/Yeshvia in Eretz Yisroel

Making Simchos, especially weddings! (and they are making MANY simchos for all those kids, bar mitzvahs, bas mitzvahs, sheva brachos, vorts, ect)

Phone bills

Cars

There are so many I cannot even list them all!!!

Expenses are so high, especially when your children don’t want to be seen as a “have not” to their friends.

amother

Nemesia

Sun, May 28 2023, 12:18 am

I’m a teacher and DH is in kollel. I am not at the stage of having 7+ kids though (iyH one day!). So I can’t answer you in terms of the long term bug expenses that add up, like yeshiva/seminary, sleepaway for multiple kids, etc.
All I can tell you is that people I know who are in the above category are hustlers. They work hard and know how to make it work.
I’ve never heard of people getting free tuition. But there are definite discounts. Kollel guys may tutor during their breaks ($80/hour). I definitely don’t just take off in the summer, and work in day camps etc.
Many times the people who are doing this very long term/forever are really good at it and are valued for it. The older kollel avreichim that my husband learns with are a whole other level. When people are good at what they do they are valued and paid more.
Many people do investments, even small amounts of money every month for 20 years makes a difference. Clothing is bought on sale. Vacations are on points. They are savvy.

amother

Turquoise

Sun, May 28 2023, 12:29 am

We are experiencing miracles every year.
We have 10 children Kah and our tuition expenses are pretty low bc of one school with very steep discount (I work there) that half my kids attend.
Otherwise, it’s $61K after all the grants, vouchers, scholarships and discounts. We bh live frugally: no vacations ever, very simple living, mostly free Sunday activities,
We dream to take our family to EY.

amother

Emerald

Sun, May 28 2023, 12:34 am

amother OP wrote:

Ok, I'll bite.
Dh is a rebbi, I am a morah. I work in a daycare center, so no tuition breaks as I dont have any kids young enugh to be with me. dh teaches in a different yeshiva to my kids, so no free tuition.

So how do we actually manage to afford everything? we really dont. its actually really hard sometimes. The hardest thing is trying to make sure that our kids dont feel resentful.

Income= total including all tutoring jobs and summer jobs etc for both of us is approx $105k
we dont pay so much tax because dh has parsonage which means that about $30k of our income is tax free.
Family - my parents and in laws give us small gifts here and there. Like a couple hundred for pesach, a hundred each for birthdays. Altogether we get maybe $1.5k from family gifts, thats it.

Our expenses...
1. non-negotiable expenses are hard, because we have no choice.
we bought a cheaper-than-average house many years ago when houses were BH cheaper, and I honestly can't imagine how any rebbi could buy right now in today s market. so we pay about $1500/month mortgage.

tuition - we are paying 7 tuitions, in our city, in another US city and in Israel.
IN our city we are paying about $4k per child, total of about $16k. For the kids who are learning out of town we are paying close to $20k altogether. BH the yeshivas are working with us well, they understand that we are in chinuch and literally dont have the money. But I am dreading the seminary stuff which hasn't applied to us yet but will do in the future...

What else? well with the rising costs of food and stuff, its really hard. Clothing is bought at sales. Two of my bochurim just asked for new hats. I hesitated long enough that they both offered to put $100 towards it. But I feel bad to take them up on it, they dont earn any money, its their meager Barmitzvah savings that they will break into...
Camp -- now thats a problem. its too expensive, so we send the kids to just one session of daycamp, and say no to sleepaway camp, which makes the kids very sad Sad

clothes - well I just never buy anything much for myself...

What benefits do we get?
gvt benefits -
...in my state we have the BOOST education grants, so we get $1600 towards each childs tuition.
...we used to get wic but now we have nobody in that age bracket.
...we get medical insurance for the kids but not for hte 4 of us who are over 21.
...we earn too much to get snap.

benefits from jewish orgs:
...when we made a wedding we got a check for $3k from a local jewish org towards expenses.
...sales twice a year where we can choose one yomtov dress or suit per child for $25. Thats one yomtov sorted out per child at not such a crazy price, although I do try to find clothing for cheaper than that.
... chasdei lev came to our city at last! pesach we spent $300 and got food worth about $1100, that was very helpful.

REally, its very hard financially. it s hard to know that I cant really help support my kds when they get married. but I keep reminding myself that my husband is fortunate to be teaching Torah which is a mitzvah, all day. its a worthwhile investment! (even if its hard!)

amother

Poppy

Sun, May 28 2023, 1:08 am

Both in chinuch (husband in more administrative 24-7 chinuch ) and we are not making it .
I am not sure I would encourage my kids to go into chinuch.
Having a 24-7 chinuch responsibility cuts out all options for side hustles but locks you in to a specific salary . It’s very tough .

TBH- we went into chinuch knowing that we would have to live frugally and we are fine with it . We are ok not going on vacations and buying last seasons clothing etc.
What I didn’t anticipate is not having enough to cover basic expenses

amother

Melon

Sun, May 28 2023, 1:42 am

amother Emerald wrote:

I appreciate your service to klal yisrael.

From the fact that your boys are buying hats, I'm going to assume that they are in the kinds of yeshivas that expect them to learn full time after marriage, and possibly don't prepare them for higher education.

Maybe your sons will marry money, but if you have daughters, you're going to be expected to kick in. Presumably you'll have a lower tuition burden once they get married, and you'll have some money to spare, but it probably won't meet their needs.

So I'm also curious about how this works. I hope you are able to continue living with dignity, but given housing and other expenses, I don't know how this is going to continue.

amother

Emerald

Sun, May 28 2023, 1:50 am

amother Melon wrote:

Exactly. I'm worried too... about how we will suport our daughters. pay for seminary. but so far Hashem has always made everything work out for us. I am sure He will continue to provide for our needs. But I do worry about my girls' shidduchim, it is clear that we cant suport them that much. As for my boys, I dont want them to marry money! They wouldnt know what to do with a high maintenance wife Smile

amother

Melon

Sun, May 28 2023, 1:52 am

amother Emerald wrote:

I guess what I'm asking is whether you want to set your children on a path that is even harder than your own.

What would you recommend for other parents in your position?

amother

Emerald

Sun, May 28 2023, 1:54 am

and thank you for your comment: I appreciate your service to klal yisrael.

It's rare to see a comment like that here on imamother. More often you see comments bashing Rebbeim, about how Rebbeim are being given so much and everyone else are the ones struggling. But really what keeps me going is knowing that my husband is teaching Torah all day, and that he is helping everyone else's kids.
Some parents of students are very generous. There are those who give big gifts that they cant really afford, which makes us feel bad.
Then there are the parents who are known to be among the most wealthy families in town and they dont give a single gift, or thank you letter or even thank you email or text all year.
Believe me, Rebbeim are not in it for the tips and gifts!

amother

Emerald

Sun, May 28 2023, 1:57 am

amother Melon wrote:

I guess what I'm asking is whether you want to set your children on a path that is even harder than your own.

What would you recommend for other parents in your position?

I dont know.
over Shavuos I was davening and crying for clarity. I was so overwhelmed with gratitude to HKBH for giving me a husband and sons who love to learn Torah, and I was wishing that all my sons could also be teachers of Torah. But then I thought, how could that be? the only way we ever were able to manage financially was because we bought our house over 20 years ago when houses were so much cheaper. But the way it is now, I cant see how any Rebbi or kollel family could ever buy or pay rent! Prices have gone up so so much , its crazy Sad

ShishKabob

Sun, May 28 2023, 8:10 am

amother Emerald wrote:

just want to say that Hashem is still in charge of the world even with high housing prices. Meaning if you believe it was Hashem who helped you buy the house and not necessarily because the low prices, you will have to believe that Hashem can allow someone to buy a house despite the high prices.
I know of a FRUM MD that wants to move to Israel because he can’t make it with the high tuition prices here.
A yids income Does Not make sense/cents period. It doesn’t add up. We rely in Hashem and dollars to dollars Can Not be explained.

amother

Tiffanyblue

Sun, May 28 2023, 9:24 am

It's not just chinuch, there are those of us in this situation whose husbands are making very little for one reason or another. So we're living a life of poverty and anxiety with no Torah to show for it. I wish my husband was at least learning or a Rebbi. Instead he has a low paying job and no ambition to speak of.

happy chick

Sun, May 28 2023, 9:35 am

amother DarkGray wrote:

If both parents are teachers then they're not paying tuition.
Rebbeim get assistance for Yom tov like pesach

absolutely not!! I dont know what goes on in your neck of the woods, but in my community even teachers pay tuition. it may come off their salary, but tuition is calculated (more discounted as well), and then deducted from the paycheck. and if you work in a girls school, you still have to pay for the boys. and vice versa.

and yes, tuition is most likely the largest expense any frum family has (depending on the number of children - but you did say 7+). more than all other expenses together. while I dont have the asnwer to your question, I do have to say that Hashem helps in the most mysterious ways....

amother

Scarlet

Sun, May 28 2023, 10:02 am

I did not read responses!

But will say what I have to I have 7+ kids and bh was able to cover till I made Chassuna . I was always someone who watched how I spent , I always believed that hashem sent us the kids and will send us the money he never disappointed me yet. I can’t buy luxuries, my kids don’t get much to any extras but they are happy. I never saw a girl not get married cause of money. My husband spoke to someone recently and he helps and advises people he said making under 150 k with a few kids you can’t cover anymore. I do believe in our world things will have to give and be stopped. Life ain’t about money it’s about happiness

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