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-> The Social Scene
mig100
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 Thu, Aug 17 2023, 3:17 pm
Me neither. I thought I heard It all. I guess I didnt
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amother
Tangerine
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Thu, Aug 17 2023, 3:23 pm
And I wonder why so many. Young couples get divorced after being so spoiled 
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amother
Midnight
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Thu, Aug 17 2023, 3:32 pm
| amother Burlywood wrote: | LOL. My grandfather AH used to tell me if he could do life over, he would take it easy and learn in Kollel, instead of working hard to build up a business, etc...
But the truth is, my husband always worked hard, up early, learning all day, etc.....and there were no paid vacations for us. We have lived simply.
It's the new generation of young people that have their cake and eat it too....
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No offense to your grandfather who should have a lichtege gan eden but what in the world? You ppl about a crowd of ppl who learn for around 4 and a half minutes after their wedding and are fully supported. That is not the world of kollel. Ppl who are in it for the long haul are most definitely not going on these vacations or chilling out. They have a full full schedule both the husband who learns 3 sedarim a day and the wife who works. Plus the husband usually trying to make supplemental income by tutoring or joining an early morning kollel...
Whatever. I don't know why I'm even bothering
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amother
Goldenrod
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Thu, Aug 17 2023, 4:09 pm
| amother Midnight wrote: | No offense to your grandfather who should have a lichtege gan eden but what in the world? You ppl about a crowd of ppl who learn for around 4 and a half minutes after their wedding and are fully supported. That is not the world of kollel. Ppl who are in it for the long haul are most definitely not going on these vacations or chilling out. They have a full full schedule both the husband who learns 3 sedarim a day and the wife who works. Plus the husband usually trying to make supplemental income by tutoring or joining an early morning kollel...
Whatever. I don't know why I'm even bothering |
There are those who are really living a kollel lifestyle
But there are those who are living off mommy and tatty and living it up with vacations and eating out, husband not in yeshiva half the time...
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amother
Indigo
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Thu, Aug 17 2023, 4:58 pm
It is socially off to ask a question like that, its just basically bragging.
This goes along with the question of "So, what are you doing / where did you go for the summer?"
Umm, both my husband and I work full time jobs. BH we can send the children to summer camp and then resort to combination of between-camps and babysitting for the between time. We manage to get away for mini "vacations" by taking off a day or two & travelling to relatives within 2-3 hour drive for long weekends (Thurday night - Sunday/Monday night)
No we dont have off for 3 months in the summer to travel or even to sit by a pool up state. Certainly not the time or money to go galivanting around the world with 4 children in tow. If you can afford to vacation or 'send' your married children places - kol hakavod, but no need to rub it in the faces of others.
As for the rich parents providing for their children - I know some rich grand/parents who provide tickets to their children to go to Israel for Yom Tov, but that is inviting them to join them there, not sending them off on vacation.
Those whose husband really learns in kollel who have off for 1 month (Chodesh Av), should be able to decide what to do with their time off. Parents who want to give to their children - kol hakavod, but dont "send them" places. If they are old enough to get married, they are old enough to make their own choices.
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amother
OP
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Thu, Aug 17 2023, 7:22 pm
Op here. This is a very specific crowd. I dont want to name the crowd. But I do think it's not as isolated as this thread is making it out.
But I don't think it is a kollel vs non kollel thing. Not at all.
It's a mindset that some parents have that they support their kids and fund exotic vacations and basically continue their children's high lifestyle.
The vast majority of serious kollel people I know are the real deal.
It's not just vacations.
Take a girl who grew up in a home where she got 5 new dresses before every yom tov. Do you think that after she gets married she will suddenly not need 5 new dresses before yom tov? This is the standard she has gotten used to.
People who grew up living simply just don't have such hasagos.
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amother
Anemone
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Thu, Aug 17 2023, 7:25 pm
lotta generalizatoins
we know girls who grew up wealthy and when married definitely lived on a shoestring with a good attitude when necessary
mi k'amcha yisroel!
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amother
Daisy
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Thu, Aug 17 2023, 7:25 pm
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I sent them to their room. They weren't behaving so I grounded them for bein hazmanim. Seriously, are we talking about children or independent adults?
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dancingqueen
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Thu, Aug 17 2023, 9:16 pm
| Chayalle wrote: | | I actually know more than one family like this, they have put in a pool with a poolhouse, basketball court, etc...but I wonder if the younger generation will really buy into the staycation, long-term. |
IME, people who put a lot of money into pools and basketball courts also go on expensive vacations! But it is true that since Covid having a pool in your backyard exploded in popularity because people were stuck at home.
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amother
Amber
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Thu, Aug 17 2023, 9:32 pm
| essie14 wrote: | It's so strange! I've never heard of anyone referring to their married children this way, except here on imamother. It must be cultural and regional.
You send your teen to the grocery store, who sends a married couple anywhere? And why are they "yours"? |
I understand the term ‘my couple’. Before she’s married she’s my daughter. After she’s married instead of saying my daughter and my son in law went blah blah, it makes sense to say my couple.
‘Sent’ my couple does feel weird to me.
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amother
Stoneblue
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Thu, Aug 17 2023, 10:02 pm
As a newlywed my inlaws took us along on their vacation at a nearby motel. They still had some single children at home. We basically just chilled and cooked together.
If this is what's considered "sending your couple on vacation" I guess we qualify. This was 2 decades ago.
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amother
NeonGreen
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Thu, Aug 17 2023, 10:47 pm
| amother Daisy wrote: | | I sent them to their room. They weren't behaving so I grounded them for bein hazmanim. Seriously, are we talking about children or independent adults? |
I LOLed waaaaaaaaaaaaay too hard at this
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amother
DarkOrange
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Fri, Aug 18 2023, 12:32 am
| amother Goldenrod wrote: | There are those who are really living a kollel lifestyle
But there are those who are living off mommy and tatty and living it up with vacations and eating out, husband not in yeshiva half the time... |
All my neighbors basically are in Kollel. I don't know anyone going to Europe or fancy vacations
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amother
Cerulean
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Fri, Aug 18 2023, 1:15 am
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This is only in specific circles, which is a very small percentage of the wealthy who are also materialistic circles, which is the tiniest percent of everyone. And the person who said it was wanting to tell you about hers, she wasn't necessarily interested in your response.
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DrMom
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Fri, Aug 18 2023, 1:15 am
| amother OP wrote: | Op here. This is a very specific crowd. I dont want to name the crowd. But I do think it's not as isolated as this thread is making it out.
But I don't think it is a kollel vs non kollel thing. Not at all. |
Well if it's specific to a particular community then I guess it's normal for that community. Since you won't say which community you are talking about, we'll just take your word for it. 
| amother OP wrote: |
It's not just vacations.
Take a girl who grew up in a home where she got 5 new dresses before every yom tov. Do you think that after she gets married she will suddenly not need 5 new dresses before yom tov? This is the standard she has gotten used to.
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Sounds like she has accumulated dozens of dresses already in her closet, so she should be fine.
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Einikel
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Fri, Aug 18 2023, 1:42 am
| DrMom wrote: | | Sounds like she has accumulated dozens of dresses already in her closet, so she should be fine. |
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amother
Anemone
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Fri, Aug 18 2023, 5:52 am
right
you do you
and let them do them
no need for a big emotional charge
if someone were to ask me such a question I would calmly state "oh we don't do that"
if they want to do so its of no consequence to me
not jealous/insulted/angry or have any emotional response whatsoever
if I did allow some acquaintance's comment to have such an impact upon me then I would examine inside to see what nerve it hit and work it through IYH
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DVOM
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Fri, Aug 18 2023, 6:18 am
| amother Anemone wrote: | right
you do you
and let them do them
no need for a big emotional charge
if someone were to ask me such a question I would calmly state "oh we don't do that"
if they want to do so its of no consequence to me
not jealous/insulted/angry or have any emotional response whatsoever
if I did allow some acquaintance's comment to have such an impact upon me then I would examine inside to see what nerve it hit and work it through IYH |
The op doesn't read jealous/insulted/angry to me. More like fascinated/flabbergasted/aghast.
The reaction makes perfect sense to me. Kind of like the instinctual slowing down of your car to look, hypnotized, at a car wreck as you pass by. You can't help it.
Observing this sort of cultural craziness naturally causes a person to pause and stare for a bit.
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amother
Anemone
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Fri, Aug 18 2023, 6:26 am
why cultural craziness?
just different from me and my family and community
if it works for them, so be it
they can afford it and want to gift their kids its their money their choice
no need for me to disparage anyone
and....I deliberately do not gawk at car accidents rather our minhag is to say a perek tehilim as we drive by eyes averted tbh
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NotInNJMommy
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Fri, Aug 18 2023, 6:35 am
| amother OP wrote: | This was the question asked of me by a friend of mine. Admittedly, she is not someone I talk to regularly, so she may have forgotten that I'm not in her social or financial bracket. But the question caught me off guard.
"What do you mean?" I asked. "Am I supposed to 'send' my couple on a trip? I mean, they did travel a bit, to visit his sister in the Midwest, but I didn't 'send' them. I wasn't involved in their planning, per se."
She went on to tell me that she sent her first couple to Italy, Switzerland and Morroco (booked the itinerary and all) but her second couple was happy with just going to Eretz Yisroel. And that it was something discussed with her mechutanim before they even announced the engagement- as part of the financial conversation.
Honestly, I was totally confused. Is this what people do? No one told me.
We support our married couple by giving a standard amount every month. Am I also required to "send them" on exotic vacations?
Later, I was talking to my mom, who mentioned that my newly married nephew went to Morroco, and why didn't my couple do some fun trip, being that this may be their only chance before kids come along.
Hello, is this a thing by normal people?
By "normal", I mean (fill in the blank).
Is it an expectation that if you are supporting your couple in learning, that you also pay for a trip during bein hazemanim? Well, I didn’t get the memo.  |
IT's not normal or typical.
Halevai the typical family has that type of budget. The model itself isn't sustainable---who can support multiple households in addition to themselves when they are not solvent independently?
We should not be tempted to go into debt for all these keeping up with the Cohens things....Because the Cohens themselves are certainly paying cash.....and those keeping up are taking on insane debt--that may or may not be apparent to outsiders. It's not normal, and it's not smart, but there are ideas that it is sadly typical and that is causing so much financial strain and family strife.
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