So where did you send your young couple for Bein Hazmanim?

amother

Darkblue

Fri, Aug 18 2023, 6:45 am

Mother of Knh several young couples here.
We support all our couples , in EY and here.
They all work hard - the men really learning and the women working in different fields. None of them live on a high standard. They use our support to live simply and possibly put some away.
Couple 1 - went away for one day while I watched their kids
Couple 2 - flew in from OOT with their kids to spend a week visiting us
Couple 3 -live in EY, rented an apartment I did not pay for) a couple hours away from where they live for extended weekend
Couple 4- just got married live in EY - took day trips in EY , got around by bus.
Every one of those husbands learned every day of bein hazmanim and were back in yeshiva yesterday, 30 Av.
And each of these couples have friends who did similar.

DVOM

Fri, Aug 18 2023, 6:52 am

amother Anemone wrote:

why cultural craziness?
just different from me and my family and community
if it works for them, so be it
they can afford it and want to gift their kids its their money their choice
no need for me to disparage anyone

and....I deliberately do not gawk at car accidents rather our minhag is to say a perek tehilim as we drive by eyes averted tbh

You sound like a really wonderful person!

I don't feel so nutral about this. Maybe because I can't dismiss it so easily as something happening somewhere else, to some other group of people. It's happening in my town, to my neighbors. I believe that this sort of thing filters down, impacts us all, will impact me and mine eventually. And I do think it's crazy.

So I'm going to take your idea, and say a perek of tehilim as I watch this new phenomenon:

I pray that all the new couples in all of our communities find deep joy in each other and satisfaction in what they have, never feel that they're lacking or deprived.

amother

Anemone

Fri, Aug 18 2023, 7:39 am

Amein to your beautiful brocha!

and you do raise a good point about raising the bar...hadnt thought about it quite like that. We are very makpid on not following "trends" that don't work for us.

Appreciate your nice and thoughtful post!

amother

DarkGreen

Fri, Aug 18 2023, 8:11 am

I think it really depends on the circles. In my circles (yeshivish in Israel) we are not sent on vacations. Maybe some kind parents sponsor their couple or give them money for it as a gift but it's definitely not an expected or widespread thing

amother

Fri, Aug 18 2023, 1:07 pm

In response to Dr Mom who said "Well if it's specific to a particular community then I guess it's normal for that community. Since you won't say which community you are talking about, we'll just take your word for it."

I didn't want to name the community because I don't want to turn this into loshon hara or motzi shem ra. Nor do I want people to start defending/bashing this specific community.

Truth is, I feel bad to have posted this interaction in the first place, because no way would I have wanted to cause anyone to think less of kollel people. I believe in a kollel lifestyle, (lived a kollel lifestyle for many years myself) and I think it is something to be admired. That's why I said in my previous post that I don't think this has to do with kollel at all. In my very diverse community, where we have many wealthy MO families, I see a similar dynamic of parents funding their children to live a high lifestyle.

I understand that people take offense, because we tend to think that learning Torah should come along with sacrifice. I agree with that to a large extent.
But Torah is for all. Even the very wealthy have a share in Torah.

So let's separate the idea of kollel from this discussion, please.

amother

Fri, Aug 18 2023, 1:17 pm

DVOM wrote:

The op doesn't read jealous/insulted/angry to me. More like fascinated/flabbergasted/aghast.

The reaction makes perfect sense to me. Kind of like the instinctual slowing down of your car to look, hypnotized, at a car wreck as you pass by. You can't help it.

Observing this sort of cultural craziness naturally causes a person to pause and stare for a bit.

Thank you DVOM.
I can honestly say that there was not an ounce of jealosy/hurt/anger. I am happy for my friend and I wish her the best, but I am equally happy not to be living her lifestyle, to be living my life the way I am.

The reason for my OP was, as DVOM wrote, was more like fascination, flabbergasted.
I also wondered for a brief second if perhaps it was a done thing for parents who support their kids to give extra for bein hazemanim. Not to fund an international trip per se, but just to give a bit extra. People don't usually talk about these things in polite company, so I wondered.

amother

NeonPink

Fri, Aug 18 2023, 2:47 pm

My couple is actually going to switzerland. Im not sending them becuase I cant afford to. But his in laws are paying for tickets because yes they can afford it. And yes its a supported learning couple.
My son is sooo not used to this travling lifestyle. He actually flew the first time this winter a little before his wedding.

But im happy they are getting away and iyh will have a great time

amother

Burlywood

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 8:32 am

amother Midnight wrote:

No offense to your grandfather who should have a lichtege gan eden but what in the world? You ppl about a crowd of ppl who learn for around 4 and a half minutes after their wedding and are fully supported. That is not the world of kollel. Ppl who are in it for the long haul are most definitely not going on these vacations or chilling out. They have a full full schedule both the husband who learns 3 sedarim a day and the wife who works. Plus the husband usually trying to make supplemental income by tutoring or joining an early morning kollel...
Whatever. I don't know why I'm even bothering

Amen, he was a holocaust survivor and surely has his Gan Eden just for raising a frum family after that. But your point is exactly mine. For whatever reasons, he did not approve of the Kollel lifestyle, likely because it was not something he understood. And neither did the poster I was responding to, with all due respect.

amother

Stone

Sun, Aug 20 2023, 9:28 pm

amother Indigo wrote:

This goes along with the question of "So, what are you doing / where did you go for the summer?"
Umm, both my husband and I work full time jobs. BH we can send the children to summer camp and then resort to combination of between-camps and babysitting for the between time. We manage to get away for mini "vacations" by taking off a day or two & travelling to relatives within 2-3 hour drive for long weekends (Thurday night - Sunday/Monday night)
No we dont have off for 3 months in the summer to travel or even to sit by a pool

Hear, hear! This used to bug the daylights out of me. There was this complete blindness to other lifestyles, no recognition that not everyone can afford to be a sahm or is a teacher who gets the summer off or even an employee of a frum employer who gets all YTim off plus a vacation. Some of us have to use our carefully hoarded vacation days for the Yom tovim, we work chol Hamoed, and we send our kids to camp for the whole summer not because we're made of money but because we have to work and we can't leave kids home alone unsupervised all day. Many of us don't even have the luxury of working from home but have to show up to an actual office, factory, hospital, supermarket, construction site or whatever. Imagine that!