Taking (borrowing) kids money to pay for necessities?

amother

Alyssum

Tue, Sep 05 2023, 8:13 pm

Nobody gives teens gifts of tons of money for them to use at their discretion before coming of age and there is such a thing as custodial accounts
The point is that the money is preserved and conserved and saved for them and not dipped into or taken as parents wish/need
Best to treat their funds as non entities like they don’t even appear on the radar
And make whatever financial arrangements and solutions as if they don’t exist
Not always so easy I know

amother

Melon

Tue, Sep 05 2023, 8:26 pm

amother Alyssum wrote:

this may be true. but very different than saying using this money is STEALING when halachically it is not. (according to my posek)

amother

Melon

Tue, Sep 05 2023, 8:32 pm

amother Kiwi wrote:

Amother Melon, I don't know your situation, but if your young kids have that much liquid cash, you really should consider investing it for them. My parents did that for me and I am very grateful. If they had left it in cash it's just going to drop with inflation to the point where it wouldn't be worth that much when they come of age..

I agree, a lot of the money is currently in the Ibonds. so not quite liquid now but will be again soon. Before that it was in mutual funds, but for reasons beyond this post (and nothing to do with us wanting to borrow it!) it was sold out of the mutual funds. We were actually just talking about investing it again after we cash out of the ibonds. so yes there's a chance it won't always be so accessible.

amother

Red

Wed, Sep 06 2023, 6:52 am

amother Lilac wrote:

But I believe halachically also, a parent isn’t obligated to support a child over bar/bas Mitzva. So if $ is being used for food, utilities, clothing, etc for the child, I don’t think it’s stealing to use the child’s $ for this. It’s not ideal in today’s generation (whereas in the past, it was completely normal for children to contribute their earnings to the household expenses), but that’s not the same as stealing.

Halachically it is not different to have a kid post bar or bas mitzvah or a married couple who you are supporting. Would you be ok taking their money that they got as wedding gifts or worked for behind there backs if you where supporting them.

Children used to contribute to family earnings - it was often a matter of survival for all the parties then. And I don't think it was ever done without the child's knowledge in healthy functional families, even in extreme poverty. There was an understanding that everyone contributed earning to the family pot and the family covered the needs of everyone equally.

In 2023 I would go into debt before borrowing from a child, but in a really dire situation - all cards are maxed out, no gmach loans available, asked every organization for assistance, asked every friend/ family member/ acquaintance for assistance, I would ask my child for assistance and I would lay out my plan for repaying what I owe them.

The only situation where this would be different if it was money that I saved planning for there weddings or future education expenses, and they did not know about it. In such a case - it is really my money earmarked for them. In case of an inheritance or money that was gifted to them or that they worked for I would need permission for a loan.

amother

Puce

Wed, Sep 06 2023, 11:40 am

Decades ago, I had a savings account that I started when I was in grade school. Then my parents "borrowed" all the money so my father could go into business (he failed). Of course they paid me back in many, many other ways over the years, but I never forgot my childhood hurt at having my money taken from me without my consent.